Roughing the passer calls. Are most of these legit?

CFL Talk
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Ottawa picked up 4 roughing the passer penalties tonight. Not saying quarterbacks shouldn't be protected, but Reilly often waits until the very last second to release the ball, making it next to impossible to pull up. Also, when two defenders arrive at the same time, it's invariably 'roughing the passer' the way the rule is interpreted, simply because the first guy takes him low, forcing the other guy to come up high(er), lest he collide with his teammate!

We need to get head shots out of the game, no question. But I didn't see any evidence of that today (other than the one that made his forehead bleed). Mostly just bad o-line play by the Eskimos - guys just getting blown up at the LOS, without any complicated twists or stunts; just beaten man on man with a 4 man rush. They were playing on roller skates tonight and as a consequence, Reilly was a human piñata out there.

But are most of these roughing the passer calls legit, or just a by-product of bad O-line play?

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Sorenson was replaced by Rottier at centre so some of the reverse roller-skating might have been created by this simple change; although Sorenson at his best is a guy who has to rely on the other players on the line to provide optimum protection.

What I've noticed on RTP calls (and no doubt its up by at least 33%, perhaps closer to 50%) is that the old mano a mano face to face wrap up sack is being called far too often. The rusher is actually trying to avoid a penalty by standing up straight and going into the QB in the so-called missionary position. If that continues it means guys are gonna refuse to safe-tackle this way and instead take dives at QB's mid-sections, thight and upper knee areas - which to me is probably gonna cause more injuries than the missionary technique.

Just a thought, guys like Ed Phillion, Dougie Brown and that big 78 piece of t from the old Toronto roster would be flagged on just about every QB wrap-up they delivered.

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Let’s just say that “Referee” probably needed a police escort, by the way the crowd at TD place was reacting last night.

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Yes! The 1st string QB's are what we pay to see. Don't want to see them hurt because some 300 lbs bag of hammers decides to hit one low or high or late.

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And look how many QB injuries we’ve had already.

That said…I’d have to watch them again but it didn’t seem to me as though all four penalties were deserved. But I may be biased. :oops:

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Then maybe they should be no contact players entirely. Change it so if a defender gets a hand on them, the play is dead.

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I am all in for doing everything to protect the QB.

Having said that the refs need to have better judgement .

Myself , I say RTP, is when the hit put the QB in danger.

Example. I was at the Argos @ Lions game.

An Argo drive was extended because of RTP.

This was called while Ray was on the ground. play over and a Lions defender put his hand on Ray and gave him a shove.

No way that should have been called.

Another is when a defender, whose job it is to pass rush, will hold up, but his speed collides with the QB.

As a fan, I hate the weak stuff, but it is not my job to call it .Just my viewpoint.

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There needs to be consistency!

There was a game a few weeks ago where Durant had a hit to the helmet and yet, no call.

But Reilly gets tapped a little and the flags fly!!

It HAS to be consistent and called the same across the board.

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I think the word came down this weekend to push the protection of QB’s to a new level.
I welcome it. :thup:

I can live with that. :thup:

I thing putting “flags” on them is the best idea.

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Yes , you are correct sir.

Judgement and consistency.

However, these are different depending on what crew is working which game.

We should not have double standards.

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Most of those calls are garbage. Penalize low hits and high hits, sure, but asking a 250 lbs. DE or linebacker to hold up on a perfectly legal hit between the numbers in a split second, when the QB releases the ball at the last possible moment, is ludicrous. You can't play defense in this league anymore.

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Reilly just got pummelled yesterday. He really looked like he checked out.
I thought most of the hits were tough but legit.

Just a great game.

I think all the QBs hurt this year were from lineman rolling around on the ground. Burris' finger injury was just a fluke. Pretty innocuous plays I thought.

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I don’t want to see them hurt either. No one does. But Roughing The Passer “flagapalooza” on free and hard (yet legitimate) shots to the quarterback every game because O-linemen keep whiffing on their blocks isn’t the answer either.

Perhaps CFL GMs/coaches need to consider a redeployment of their National assets, so instead of 1 or 2 Internationals on the O-line, it’s 3+ Internationals protecting each team’s most important asset. As some anonymous CFL coaches told Postmedia’s Kirk Penton recently, there simply isn’t enough Canadian O-line talent in this league. That’s what is getting these QBs hurt.

[url=http://www.torontosun.com/2016/07/26/quarterback-injuries-can-be-traced-to-offensive-line-weaknesses]http://www.torontosun.com/2016/07/26/qu ... weaknesses[/url]
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I’m good with anything that protects the #1 QB’s. If this works, I’m all for it.

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protection of the QB is paramount, but lets protect all players, not just the #1 QBs , because the way that I interpret your statement " I’m good with anything that protects the #1 QB’s. If this works, I’m all for it " indicates to me that you want the # 1 QB to be untouchable while the rest of the team including backup QBs are fair game for whatever kind of hit that you can put on them.
don’ get me wrong I like a good hard hitting game.
but we all must remember that football is not tiddlywinks, its a physical sport and injuries do happen, do you want to see any player get hurt ? NO
in my opinion the lack of practice time is hurting the development of players.

here is what I found regarding CFL practice rules as per the CBA

?How many days per week do players/teams practice? How many hours per day do players practice? How many hours per day do players spend in meetings?

A team’s practice schedule in weeks where their games are seven days apart may look like the following (understanding that in 2015 about 16% of games were played on Sundays):
•Sunday - play game, may return travel after game
•Monday - travel day, day off
•Tuesday - meetings, film review
•Wednesday - practice, meetings
•Thursday - practice, meetings
•Friday - practice, meetings, may travel late in day
•Saturday - travel day, pre-game walk through
•Sunday - play game

See also Paul LaPolice’s guide to a road team’s week.

Section 6.02 of the CBA stipulates the following for regular season practices:
•Practice times and meetings must not exceed 4.5 hours in duration in a single day.
•When there are six or more days between games, players are required to have one day off between games without practices or meetings
•When there are five or less days between games, all practices that week shall not be in full gear but in sweats, shoulder pads, and helmets only.

In a seven day span, modern CFL teams dedicate one day to playing the game, two days off from practice usually, three days of practice, one day of walk through before playing their next game. Shortened weeks obviously cut into the practice days when games are less than seven days apart, with one day of practice and a walk-through being possible. Normally one of those games would be a road contest and necessitate travel, however it is possible for teams to play back-to-back games on the road or at home. This is a general guideline and team schedules can change from week-to-week within the confines of the CBA.

The CBA provides for a 4.5 hour working day for CFL players. Practices would generally be 1.5-2 hours long, leaving an additional 2.5 hours for meetings

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To protect kickers in the League, the CFL has 2 separate rules.
1.- ROUGHING THE KICKER - 15 yrd penalty, major penalty, automatic 1st down
2. - CONTACTING THE KICKER - 10 yrd penalty, minor penalty, not automatic 1st down

Perhaps the League should look at a 10 yrd Contacting the Passer as a minor 10 yrd penalty
and a much more severe 25 yrd major penalty for blatant Roughing the Passer

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I agree with you on this one for sure. Many times guys like Reilly wait to long to release the ball in some cases you actually think it is done unpurpose to get that roughing penalty. A rusher is in full motion and it is not easy letting up to try not hit the guy especially when a QB waits as he is going to get hit. It would be interesting to know the stats how many roughing the passer calls on each QB and I would bet Reilly has way more than any other QB. A lot of this is really on the QB for holding onto the ball way too long.

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I would not even call contacting the QB or for that matter the kicker. It is part of the game! If a QB is dangerously hit then that is a different story but I have seen where a hand of a defender touches the qb’s helmet and they get called for roughing. 10 years ago they had no protection for the QB’s or calls for roughing due to the follow through of a defender and there were less QB’s injured. The helmet to helmet hit fine that is legit or the low hit is legit but if a rusher is in full flight and can not stop as soon as the QB is in throwing motion it should never be called. I truly believe there should be an intent to injure like a few seconds after the throw would have intent. It is pathetic as it is now.

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Lack of Canadian talent playing a role in the number of injured QBs ?

CFL personnel people and coaches have complained — some quite loudly — about the lack of Canadian talent across the league playing a role in the number of injured quarterbacks. Most Canadians play on the offensive line, and when that talent is spread out over nine teams and the country’s best homegrown hogs are in the NFL, the import-laden defences have the ability to eat them up. Eventually, these CFL folks figure, the quarterbacks are going to get hurt.

Saskatchewan’s Darian Durant, Ottawa’s Henry Burris and Trevor Harris, and now Toronto’s Ricky Ray have all been injured in the first five weeks. Edmonton’s Mike Reilly should still be in a coma after the hit he took from Hamilton’s John Chick last Saturday night, but he’s as tough as nails.

[url=http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/cfl/quarterbacks-health-in-danger-without-enough-canadians-to-patrol-the-offensive-line]http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/cfl ... nsive-line[/url]
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Head referees are responsible for "protecting the quarterback" and have their eyes on them pretty much all the time, especially in passing situations. In fact, after the ball is thrown the Umpire will always tell them the result of the pass (TD, PI, complete etc...) as the referee should have no idea what happened as he SHOULD always be watching the QB, even after the ball is gone keeping an eye out for those little "shots" that D lineman love to give, even small ones, to "send a message". As those little "messages" almost always grow into bigger contact, flags will sometimes be throw by officials to "send a message" to the D that the QB is off limits for cheap shots. Clean hits, great, but no cheap stuff.

Generally, any hit that is high (above the shoulders), low (below the knees) or late is a UR/RTP flag, 15 yards. If it's off the charts a 25 yard Rough Pplay/DQ can always be assessed.

It is a judgement call of course, and there will never be the kind of consistency that some fans demand...it just can't happen. The view from 5 yards away is MUCH different than from the bench, the stands or the TV camera and thus, the frustration of fans who think a flag should have been thrown when it wasn't and vice versa. The proximity of the official to the play also allows them to judge by sound as well as sometimes an impact that seemed horrendous on TV turns out to be relatively minor in actual fact.

The officials' two primary jobs are to keep the play fair and keep the players safe. Many officials played football as well(not to pro obviously but some to Junior and CIS) so have a pretty good understanding of the game and know full well that players get hurt, sometimes seriously. Officials can't prevent cheap shots from occurring, only players can. All the refs can do is flag it, and they usually do in such a manner that allows the game to be played as it should be but prevents it from becoming a chit show.