Rogers In Financial Trouble?

Just read that share prices of Rogers took a big hit last week over the news of increased cellphone competition being allowed in Canada.

I also read elsewhere that when this happens Rogers could lose billions in profits each year from its lucrative cellphone division.

And with a money losing baseball team, a stadium that can't be making money, and now this bit of news, you wonder if Uncle Ted will have the motivation anymore to risk hundreds of millions on an NFL team for Toronto?

I hope not i dont want the NFL to come anywhere neer Canada. STAY THE F*** OUT!

Wonder why Ted wouldn't look to put a CFL team in Quebec City?
It wouldn't cost him much. I'm sure he'd get some public money to help upgrade your stadium, and what you get back for your relatively small investment is much more then he'll ever get back from baseball. Or the NFL.
To me its a no brainer. But it seems these guys would rather blow their brains out trying to make these less popular American sports work up here. Why, I have no idea?

Why? Money.
Ticket sales are one thing....having 'Rogers Communications' blasted all over while playing a game in ROGERS Centre that is being watched by 20 to 30 million Americans is the important factor. I'm sure Teddy will get more money back from that exposure than he would with a team in Quebec City.
The team might struggle...but he won't. It's not just about the football ya know.

Why would Rogers, a CAnadian company, care if 20 million Americans see his name? Americans don’t buy his products.

But back to Canada. I don’t see why he’s wasting 100 million a year on baseball, when a CFL franchise gives you back more bang for your buck?

And if you lose money, it’ll be a pittance compared to what he’s dropping on baseball.

I think if Rogers brought a CFL team to Quebec i would switch from Bell to Rogers

Rogers Communications is traded on the New York Stock Exchange...doesn't sound too solely Canadian to me.
The Blue Jays had $136M in revenue and had an operating income of $29.7M. The team is valued at $286M.
Those figures were in '05.

Not too sure a CFL team can haul in $136M in revenue a year...and then be worth $286M. Think somebody would pay $286M for an expansion CFL franchise to Quebec? I doubt it.

Oh....FYI...Teddy Rogers bought the Jays in 2000 for $140M....5 years later they are valued at $286M.
Yeah...Ted is stoopid...he should drop the Jays and get on board with the CFL!

Hey, if Rogers is in financial trouble, maybe they'll bring in Frank D'Angelo as CEO; I understand he's available........

What a scary thought....Frank on Rogers commercials.....they're bad enough as they are.

berezin - You would care because advitisers are paying big bucks for ad time and the TV rights + league revenue sharing is huge... or maybe there is lot more money to be made on an NFL team in Canada than there is on a CFL team in Quebec.... revenue from things like TV and marketing rights over all of Canada versus a smaller CFL territory that would be shared with Montreal.... That's why...

You need to stop thinking that the NFL coming to Canada and being owned by a Canadian owner/company is a Canadian vs American thing and actually think in terms of business. Rogers is traded on the TSX and NYSE making it an internationally traded company. So any exposure to US markets would be huge considering they compete against Bell...

As "small time" as the NFL is here in Canada it is still going to make big $$$$

And regarding Rogers' share price drop.... They lost roughly 20% of the share value... A huge over-reaction by the market - which Roger's expected to happen. Share price is already rebounding as the market regains it's senses. Let's just say someone is going to make a lot of money of this market hiccup.

Sports franchises territories do cross borders ie. Toronto is in the Bills’ official territory for the NFL as an example. Another is Hamilton is in Toronto’s territory as deemed by the NHL.

I think baseball is Ted’s first love, not football, but he likes to make money and one of his employees, Paul Godfrey, tells Ted the NFL can make money in Canada. And their friend Larry Tanenbaum of MLSE only cares about big-money stuff rather than the CFL, unfortunately. Not much you can do but as they say, the more money you got, the bigger the toys you want.

I don’t care about the NFL coming to Canada unless it can help football and the CFL in some way or ways. If it can, then I’m all for it. As I’ve said before, the more football in Canada, the less headlines for baseball and that is okely dokely with me.

The Jays worth 186 million?
Just like the Raptors are worth more then the Canadiens?
YOu people got to remember that this is what those teams are worth in the USA.
In Canada, these teams are worthelss. And if either came up for sale, they'd be back down in the USA tomorrow.

And it was written that when the cellphone market opens up, Rogers could lose up to two billion a year in sales.

Which made me think that with the money losing Blue Jays and now this news, that investing in the NFL would be a huge gamble.

And the Jays may be worth 300 million. But they had a hell of a time finding a buyer for the Expos. Whats to say there's no buyers for the Blue Jays at that price?

Ok berezin, I agree that finding people to want to buy a MLB team at a decent price is difficult as heck. This is a big problem for baseball owners who want to get rid of their teams, no buyers out there at a decent price.

You're right Earl.
A 10% return on a million is a lot less than a 10% return on a billion.

I think it's just a little too early to be calling Rogers in financial trouble.

Yup alpha, I don't think we need to say too many prayers for ol' Ted and his businesses quite yet.

I'm not saying he's going broke.
I'm saying he's going to take a big hit.
Which makes it riskier for him to lose money elsewhere.

And really. An NFL team in Toronto wouldn't be CAnada's team. Just like the Blue Jays arent' CAnada's team. And the Raptors.

Ted may think he'll have all Canada to exploit, but it don't work that way.

And like screwing us with his cellphone rates, he'll have to learn the hard way.

They are worth what they are worth. That valuation of the Jays puts them in the lower end of the league.
Having said that...a franchise is only worth what somebody will pay for it.
Did you think the Nashville Predators would be worth $290M to somebody? I certainly didn't.
If the Jays were moved after a sale or not....Rogers still gets his money.
NFL team is the same, their franchise value will grow as the NFL flourishes tremendously. The team being a money-maker or not doesn't matter, since relocation is an option.
Investing in the NFL is never a bad idea, I don't care who or where you are. For you to say investing in the NFL is a gamble is almost laughable.
Look at the franchise values, how they increase...and the league revenues of the NFL compared to the CFL. It's not a gamble, it's a sure thing.

Don't get me wrong...I don't want a NFL team in Toronto either, I don't think it will happen and I don't think it would last long if it did. However, if Rogers does move the Bills to Toronto...he won't lose money...he'll make a bundle.

Exactly - J-93

berezin evaluation does not know borders... it only follows the $$$. If you have it and want to spend it then it's worth the investment.
The NFL is a huge money maker - unfortunately the CFL is not. The CFL has to get the financial picture stabilized and begin growth sooner than later if they are to survive.
I don't think they will be able to "stop" an NFL franchise from coming here. The CFL has to adapt to the realities of the market. Compete and grow or die...
It really doesn't have anything to do with the NFL or Americanism... it's about business.

I would love to see a comparison made of the values of these franchises in CAnada only, without any American influence. The value would be based only on their success in CAnada.

Another comparison I'd like to see is how franchise values would compare if CAnada was a similar size to the USA.

It would show the CAnadian NHL teams being at the very top of the list. And a CFL franchise would be as valuable as an NFL franchise.
IT all comes down to market size.

The CFL has to adapt to the realities of the market

Exactly, which is why if the CFL can't get stadiums built in new markets with owners, or even newer stadiums in exisiting markets like Hamilton or Winnipeg that have older, needing repair, then this league is in trouble. What has happened in Ottawa with that stadium crumbling could happen elsewhere.

And, as much as I hate to say this although maybe not a bad thing in the long run, adapting to the realities of the market if no new stadiums or no one coming on board with new franchises equals to me a farm league for the NFL. I don't see any other way around it. And maybe the end of Canadian rules as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm not wishing, just trying to take a peek in the future.

It's rare that value is based on success, it's based on how recognizable the brand is and what the product is worth to somebody. Anything has a reduced value if you restrict the potential buyers to being Canadian, we have 30 million...they have 300. You're really cutting out a lot of wealth by limiting it like that.

Another comparison I'd like to see is how franchise values would compare if CAnada was a similar size to the USA.
It would show the CAnadian NHL teams being at the very top of the list. And a CFL franchise would be as valuable as an NFL franchise. IT all comes down to market size.
If it comes down to market size...the Packers aren't worth jack...and the Blue Jays should be worth a lot more. There are 6 to 8 million people in their market base, that's no small market.