Riders vs Argos- Battle of the Bottom-feeders

Does anyone expect major changes on the team that loses this Friday? I’m thinking a coordinator or two should be a wee bit ansy if their crew stinks out the joint.

Riders will be forced to make some personnel changes.

I think the Argos are going to win this game based on how much their offence has improved in the last couple of games and with the Argos defence having more time getting used to a new DC I think they'll be better against the Riders than they were against the Ticats.

So if the Riders do lose, I wouldn't be surprised to see some changes made with both coaches and players during their bye week. If they are going to make a change that is the time to do it.

It is evident that something maybe in the works at some point in the near future with a coordinator being replaced. I feel it will be Doug Berry being released and Steve Buratto will take over Berry's duties. That's my opinion anyway.

I thought the exact same thing before this last game, but with a decent showing by the offense and another bad showing by the defense, what do they do? Could they really get rid of Berry after two strong weeks and let Hall keep his job?

See, that’s the difference with the Lions - they’ll let everyone keep their jobs because it’s the players that aren’t executing. :roll:

[url=http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/football/edmonton-eskimos/Miller+mystified+Riders+slow+start/5258501/story.html]http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/f ... story.html[/url]

Ken Miller update; Changes...

“The fact we’ve one won football game as this juncture is mystifying,? said Miller.

....ahem, reporter, although I believe MIller said that, I don't think he said that...

There will be some changes for sure but unless someone knows the inside scoop for real, who knows. :?

The fact of the matter both teams suck on paper. Taman is a clown and Barker didn't do anything to improve his team in the off-season. I wonder why Barker's head's not on the line. Bad GMing and bad coaching is a bad combination.

The only thing preventing perhaps heads to roll is the fact that there's a 3 team turtle race and atleast one of these inpet teams will make the playoffs.

I don't know if I'd say that about Barker.

he did go get another QB in Jyles but he got hurt. he went out and improved his defense.

he lost Boyd early to an injury and he just came back.

Barker did what he could, he also figured that he has a team that with the right mix could do well. nobody figures they're going to get injuries and lose a potential Starting QB before you even play a single game.

Barker got taken for a 1st round pick for a QB trying to come back after a season ending injury to his throwing shoulder. You can argue the player picked in that spot hasn't done anything so the trade was a wash. I don't buy it. It's a loss for him because he gave up a chance to add a quality NI player to his own roster for a QB he could not be sure would be able to play, and probably coulda got him for less.

Barker lost Boyd and replaced him with Kackert. Granted he brought in Kackert who put up some good numbers in Boyd's place. But he also had 3 fumbles in key situations (tops for a RB) and a big play where he didn't get out of bounds before the half vs MTL which cost his team a shot at closing the score to 20-16, instead the score stays 20-13 and they come out and put on a stinker of a 2nd half. At some point you have to realize your player's failure to hold onto the ball may be hurting the team more than helping. Your RB needs to help you win games, not lose em.

You can't figure on injuries, for sure. We saw that in Winnipeg last year - lost Buck on multiple occasions but Jyles came in and performed well. But then we finished the yea losing Buck, Brink, and Jyles, and replace them with Elliott, Goltz, Zac Champion, and a bunch of whatisnames. Then again, the Blue lost the starting interior Dline (Brown for 2 games, Smith for a game and a half), team won both games and the Dline continued to play with SWAG and didn't miss a beat. Sometimes its a bit of luck, sometimes its having the right depth. The GM needs to bring in quality players to have quality backups in case those injuries happen, and he needs to put players in the right spot to succeed. Chad Owens has been a dud on kick returns, and a bigger thud as a receiver IMO. Maybe it's time he's moved back to primarily kick return duties and a sub/6th receiver on offense. He needs to start making some decisions to help his team win. Instead its the same ol crew going out there week after week with the same bad play - bad penalties (for eg big penalties on the last drive of the game vs Ham that kept pushing them backwards after making plays to gain yardage), turnovers (again in hamilton, receiver fumbles on a key drive to try steal the game at the end). IMO Barker hasn't been able to juggle coaching and GM duties at the same time and may need to give one up.

Riders? Yes they miss Fantuz, but they could've moved on without him. The are missing key parts in Hawkins on the Dline, and no Bagg and no Koch who could've softened the blow of Fantuz. The WR spot has been the biggest difference and the chemistry or lack thereof between Durant and his new receivers have cost them. 2nd biggest has been the D - haven't played with much fire, and i look at a guy like Patrick who made a number of big plays and key picks last year, just hasn't been as noticeable this year.

I am NOT a Taman supporter so it makes me vomit in my mouth a little to say that what's happening in Riderville can't be laid at his feet (at least not completely). Miller is the head of football operations and is the one with final say on everything (apparently that's only true if Hopson doesn't interfer based on what some Rider fans are saying).

Barker trading a first round pick on the hope that Jyles will recover is not the same as if other teams with less picks in the draft had done it. After the trade, the Argos still had a first round pick along with 6 other picks in the 2011 draft and in 2010 they had 9 picks including 2 in the first round.

My bad...the game is on Thursday!

Please explain to me how a team just ‘moves on’ without their top receiver, who led the league in receiving yardage last year if I recall correctly. :wink: That’s not a player you just casually and easily replace. Moreover, Fantuz’s absence has a domino effect on the rest of the receiving corps. Dressler has less room to operate because Fantuz isn’t running those deep routes to get him open on the intermediate routes. Getzlaf suddenly has to make contested catches in traffic, and has shown thus far that he’s not up to the task. Throw in the injuries to Bagg and Koch and you can see why the group is struggling. And because the Riders (unwisely IMO) structured their import ratio around a group of Canadian receivers, they can’t just airlift a bunch of American receivers without messing up their ratio and being forced to change players at other positions.

I don't like this logic. Just because he has a bunch of draft picks doesn't mean he didn't trade away what could be a very good starting Canadian player for a QB that may or may not ever be the same. It's exactly what wolverine said. He gave up the chance to add a quality NI player to his own roster. Regardless of whether or not he had five or six or seven or 45 other picks in the draft, he still had a chance to add a quality, young NI player at a position of his choice and gave it up for an injured QB. It's not like he had five NI wide receiver prospects and traded one - there's always room for draft picks.

And if he hadn't done that, we'd instead have people in this thread complaining that he had so many draft picks and didn't do anything to get another QB into camp. :cowboy:

I'm actually looking forward to this game. The winner will go into the bye week with the cloud at least somewhat lifted (going into the bye on a win is good even if you're 2-6, because you've got a positive to build on). They should be playing with some urgency if nothing else.

Plus the Argo offense has looked almost respectable in the last two weeks, and I figure playing against the worst defense in the CFL is exactly what they need.

I wasn't or am not trying to be critical of his attempt to add a QB like Jyles to the Argo roster. However I think that he overpaid for an injured QB giving up his highest draft pick in a draft that was considered heavy at the top, not so much after round 2. On top of that, he ended last season saying that Lemon wasn't assured of the #1 spot this season. If you want to really challenge your incumbent, IMO you bring in more competition. An injured Jyles was essentially his only competition, unless you consider Dalton Bell as a serious threat to be a starter, who aside from preseason, he hasn't accomplished much when it has counted. It's the logic of giving up a 1st round pick for a guy with an injured throwing shoulder instead of finding someone who isn't hurt to use that 1st pick on or even saving that pick and signing a FA who could compete.

Losing Fantuz was going to have some effect on the Rider offense, but the point I was trying to make is that just losing Fantuz alone is not the root cause of all the problems they have had on offense. It's losing Fantuz, then losing 2 key guys in Bagg and Koch that were being counted on to help soften that blow and the guys who have stepped onto the field to replace them haven't been anywhere near good enough. A healthy Bagg in the lineup and if Koch also wasn't hurt and continued to play well would have gone a long way to softening the loss of Fantuz. Dressler has less room to run not because Fantuz alone is missing. Its because Getzlaf is off this year, you don't have Bagg to help stretch the field, and the new guys on the field Hill, Nunn, etc haven't been good enough (although Hill though had a good game last weekend).

bahahahaha! I had to re-read it numerous times to notice the mistake(s). Probably should read "at this juncture" as well.

For those who believe Fantuz is the reason the riders suck:

Unless Fantuz can play a little safety, or CB then maybe he will make a big difference. Riders defense is terrible this year! I don't see how one player should turn a Grey cup contender into one of the worst teams in the league in one year! Do you think if Montreal lost Richardson that they would all of a sudden be shitty?? Of course not. The truth is if the riders were relying on one players output then they really don't deserve to have any success. Good teams find ways to plug guys in and keep rollin, especially at the WR position.

yeah you know.. a few weeks ago i was thinking... the riders sure sucked without fantuz and bagg but then they go put up 35(ok 28 actually, last td was garbage time) against calgary and that should win u more games than not but their d..they allowed 45..

i wonder and maybe a rider fan can add a little more insight to this.. but last year, the d was run by etcheverry right? this year it's hall running the show.. could it be.. hall is trying to put square pegs in round holes? i mean.. lets be honest..edmonton sucked last year but their d was decent..seemed to not give up a ton of points.... is that because last year hall had his round pegs in round holes or is it just cuz..this year, them square pegs he trying to stick in the round holes.. well they are a year older?

i was always gotta chuckle when someone says.. its just cuz of fantuz.. its just cuz of hawkins...

really? if you suck so bad just cuz of 2 players missing... how good were u to begin with? (unless it's your qb)(thats the only one true exception, look at mtl without ac) ( they lost to these very riders being discussed)(riders are an anthony calvillo playing the whole game away from being 0-7) i mean seriously.

riders at one point were 4-8 in their last 12 regular season games, not including last years playoffs...they may very well be 5-12 0r even 5-13 now in their last 18 (1 full cfl season ) regular season games? is that really cuz of 2 guys? cuz werent those 2 guys on their team for that 4-8 stretch too?

with that being said.. i'm taking the argos this week. sask's d sucks!! toronto's doesnt.