Renegades Resurrection

I cant believe that 64% of ppl currently believe Ottawa should have their team back...

I can't believe that 36% believe Ottawa SHOULDN'T get another team. Apparently the 135 years that the CFL has already spent in Ottawa means nothing?

Everyone seems to want to think the deal with the Palmer group fell through because of poor fan support.

Well, I don't see how that can possibly be the case, since the fans haven't had a chance to see the resurrected franchise yet ...

The deal with the Palmer group fell through because nothing could be arranged with the stadium. The Renegades folded because they were run by IDIOTS. The Rough Riders folded because THEY were run by the SAME IDIOTS.

If the Ottawa fans are "fickle". it's because they want a competent owner, and I don't blame them.

The fans need to support the franchise, poor ownership or not. Did you give up on the Stamps when Feterik was the owner? Of course, the answer is no, but it seems Ottawa fans gave up on their team. Renegade fans need to stop pointing fingers at everyone else, and realize that they must shoulder some of the blame for the 'suspension' of the franchise.

I hate to admit it, but our attendance plummeted when Feterik took over. I was nervous for a couple of years. And SO relieved when Hellard et al took over ...

Before Feterik took over, we were getting at least 30,000 to each home game (a streak of 33 games, IIRC). That streak ended at a game against Winnipeg in Sept/Oct of 2002. And until Hellard returned, we only had 30,000+ at games against Saskatchewan or Edmonton. At its worst, we'd be hard-pressed to get 25,000 out to games. It was horrible. The stadium always looked at least 1/3 empty.

My point isn't that Calgary has bad fans (and no one better take it as such), it's that ownership affects attendance more than anything else, even a losing team (see Hamilton).

Now that Hellard owns the Stamps, we're slowly getting our standard attendance back up, but it's not quite back at the point where every home game promises 30,000+ fans. IMO, if Feterik had never taken over, attendance would have kept growing, to the point where we'd now have at least 34,000 at each home game.

I think that it is not fair to suggest Ottawa fans gave up on their team.
Attendance in Ottawa was never as bad as it was in Hamilton, or Toronto, or Montreal, all teams which went through their own crises of ownership.
Attendance may have even been better than it was in BC or Winnipeg at times.
All despite brutal ownership, a complete lack of direction, and subpar football for about 25-30 years.
The problem in the last Gleiberman era, was that it was absolutely predictable that the fans were not going to respond positively to the return of one of the worst ownership groups in CFL history.
It was a big mistake and is the only blemish on Tom Wrights's career.

If the league returns to Ottawa, and the team has solid ownership, and provides competitive, entertaining football (winning is not necessary immediately), the fans in Ottawa will step up.

And to echo what Canuc is saying, what do you think would happen to season ticket sales in Calgary if it were announced that Feterik had just re-purchased the Stamps...?

It all boils down to one thing-- do the Ottawa fans want a team? Apparantely, the asnwer is no, they do not. Any team's survival comes down to fan support, through good times and bad, good ownership or poor? Fan support dwindled in Calgary to what, 25K? In the 'Gades best years, thats what they were averaging 25K. The final year it was 18K. I dont think it would have mattered much who the owner was-- anyone would have bailed if they could only get 18 000 fans on average to show up for games.

palmers group was the ones who had the deal set up for the rough rider name...so maybe its good that palmer wont get the team.

what did saskatchewan average last year, sambo?

25,292. :roll:

sask home opener - 21,082 ( only 1,000 more than ottawas 2nd last home game )
against calgary week 4 - 23,942
against hamilton week 10 - 22,820
against montreal week 18 - 25,329

if you only get 21,082 to your home opener AND your a consistant playoff team...your fans are letting you down...by sambos standards.

im just showing that:
sask has been a consistant playoff team and western finalist 3 of the last 4 years and thier attendance isnt THAT much better than ottawa's was after ottawa's 30+ years of losing and terrible ownerships.

so i dunno why people don't think it can work in ottawa over SOME time....obviously they wont get 28K over nite, but a few years with good owners and a commitment to winning, and they can get sask type numbers.

Let's not get crazy here (like that has ever stopped anyone...).
The Roughriders exist in, by far, the smallest market in the CFL.
Ottawa, should it get a team, will be the 4th largest, after TO, Montreal, Vancouver.
As such, it certainly has the population base to support a team, and should be able to fill Frank Clair.
But realistically, if fans did not want the Gleibergoofs as owners, they have only one way to make it clear--not buying tickets.
I think it shows how strong support CAN be in Ottawa, that anybody bothered to attend the games at all....

Exactly ... also, Calgary's attendance went south after only a few years of bad ownership ... Ottawa hasn't had a good owner in decades.

I find all this Renegade talk, particularly around if the Ottawa fan base deserves a team interesting.

what I question is - is there another agenda going on in Ottawa that has nothing to do with fan support? I understand that City Hall is interested in Developing the land that Frank Clair is on (very interested actaully).

So if some city officials have lets say financial interest in the stadium not having a tenant... What kind of rent are they charging a CFL team to play there? What kind of support are they giving a team?

So many groups step up to the plate then back off - maybe they go to Ottawa and sense that the cities establishment doesn't want them there (or more they want the land at Frank Clair to be available - without any messy PR situation about kicking a team out of there home)

So many factors can be at play beyond fan support. I live in Toronto and know all about it. Paul Godfrey - mr. I'm not a man until we get the NFL - used to be the editor of the Toronto Sun - a paper whose sports section is probably the most widely read. The Skydome use to treat the Argo's like an after thought and charged them unreasonable rent. The climate has changed and so has fan support - something to look at.

The rent came out to being about 65,000 per game. They called that "cost-recovery", since they took care of maintenance like picking up garbage after games and...huh...I don't know what else. It sure as hell wasn't ficing the sound system.

Well, one guy backed off because he found out he had cancer. D'Angelo didn't back off, he was told to get lost.

The high rent was a factor in the team losing in past year, no doubt, but both sets of owners agreed to it and figured they could make it work. So be it. They knew what they were getting into.

I don't believe that the city played a part in Palmer backing off. Cohon said that he had not contacted the city, and a city rep said that they hadn't heard from the CFL. They (the city) did hear from Palmer, but only to the extent of his proposal.

But until the city feels comfortable that the league is serious about Palmer, they're not going to go over the proposal. Why spend the time, if there's still a chance that the league will say they want nothing to do with Palmer?

I believe that if the CFL had said "this is our guy. If you and Palmer can come to an agreement, we're going back to Ottawa" then the city would have looked at it.

Would they have come to an agreement? No idea. But if they didn't review the proposal, I understand why.

Frankly, Ottawa should definetly get another team. As well, if not the same year then soon after, Halifax should get a team. Then we should just sit there and build up the league. That way, we can have a truly coast to coast league, and we still have an Ottawa team that should always be there (Although if they ever renamed themselves the Rough Riders, So help me God . . . ). It'd be a great league that way!

And then, of course, if Ottawa manages to fail miserably again, we move them to Quebec City and give them a shot.
(Although, if Quebec would ever separate, I don't know where we would relocate two teams . . . :twisted: :wink: )

wait a tick the rent was only 65K per game?

that's 650K per year.

The Bombers paid 1.233M in Stadium occupancy, but did make 382K from Stadium managment(so net loss of 851K

However big question:
How much money did the Renegades make from Concessions?
Did not having a team store hurt bad?(it's only around 120K of Winnipegs total Revenue merchandise that is)
Did Ottawa get any corporate sponsorship? is over well over 20% of both Ottawa and Edmontons Revenues.
*ottawa would need atleast 2M, but more 3M+ from corporate sponsorship.

I could easily see Concessions being something that killed the Gades, if they got a low or non-exsitant number of the concessions $$ that hurts, that's like 800K-1M$ a season.

I wish I could answer that, Barnes, but I truly don't know.