Relax - Look at the Eastern standings

I hear ya, but I just dohn’t see it that way at all.

4-23 is largely irrelellevant considering that this is a very different team from last year.

If no or little changes were made form last year then I’d agree that 4-23 is rellevant.

However, it it not as that team is long gone.

No, Maas, no Desjarfins, no Holmes, no Ralph, new OC and DC, Printers coming in with a full training camp etc, etc, etc…

Are there issues yet to be resolved? Sure there are, but the offence alone has shown a dramatic improvement over last year’s.

Time should allow for improved D line play and consistnet O line play. That’ll have a dramatic impact.

I know it’s hard to hear this yet again, but for all intents and purpose we are only 5 games into the seaosn with a new team. It takes time.

I wish I had your optimism but without better coaching this will be another losing season. It does not lessen my support for this team. I hate to be critical but these are critical times for this team.
I have to agree with this (quote) from mr62cats. his is a very critical time for or Cats. What happens Thursday night in Montreal, is very, very critical to the future of the 2008 season for the Club.

Cheers

Sounds like all the posters that proclaimed the Edmonton game as a must win.

Well guess what? It weasn’t. We lost and we’re one game out of first place in the east.

As I keep saying, it’s along season with 13 games to go in a slow starting eastern division.

Anything can happen between now and playoff time.

Nice to see optimism, but can they pull out at least 8 wins in the next 13 games? (or put another way, can they manage only 5 more losses?) That is probably what they need to get to the playoffs.

Honestly, I doubt it, but it woulnd’t suprise me if they got it togehtere and pulled it off.

Would going 7-6 in the next thriteen do it? With the east being so weak right now what would it take to qualify?

I know I’m grasping at straws here, but I really don’t think this is unreasonable.

  1. Toronto is becoming a pretty strong team. I expect them to finish first in the East :frowning:

  2. Montreal came out of the gate quickly but I think they’ll end up in last… or 2nd last.

  3. Winnipeg has a QB. I expect them to finish 2nd.

  4. Hamilton. Where do I start? I’ll just leave it at this… if Hamilton can surpass Montreal by the end of the season and take 3rd in the East… with the West teams beating up on the East… expect a cross over. No playoffs for us. :frowning:

Cap'n:

All this - "we lost but...."
"we are 1-4 but...."
"4-23 is irrelevant..." etc leaves me wondering.
These stats are fact. And they say something. To me they say all is not well.
As we look to the future continuing on the present course (ie Charlie) we have no stats and no guarantees. All we have is hope if we insist that no changes are needed. But think about the downside of tossing the facts out the door and keeping your fingers crossed. All we know about the future is that the dissatisfaction over this team's performance is growing by leaps and bounds by the week. More losses will mean more paying fans will give up.And you can bet THEY are taking last season (and before) into consideration. They think this team and this coach have already had more than enough time to show some major improvement. The evidence is already in front of us....it does not look good for the rest of this season. Miracles are tough to come by. Good coaching, discipline and motivation make for an easier solution. So lets go that way.
Given what we see week after week, do you think a new coach of Obie's choosing will end up with a record as bad as Charlie's? Obie is a winner and his job is to fill seats and make the playoffs. Doing nothing is not an option for him.
Optimism is a good thing. I had lots of that at the beginning of last season.
But we are at the point now where the criticism is coming from all quarters. The "lets stay the course" folks are gradually being surrounded. I admire your resolve. But its time to consider a change of course Cap'n.
I for one, will be happy to stand up and say I have been wrong and walk the plank if your scenario for the rest of the season plays out. The main thing for me is that the team becomes successful.

And that's it from me for a while on Charlie's situation. He is a good guy and I do not like being so critical about him.

4-23 is blending two diffrent teams.

The 3-15 was bad. But it is also history as many changes were made.

1-4 is not well, but nowhere near as bad as last year as the competetiveness to date has proven.

All we have is hope if we insist that no changes are needed.
But changes have been made. Many changes. You can't make changes every 5 games. it's still way too early, especially in Obie's tenure. Let this play out. You have to give it a chance.
The evidence is already in front of us....it does not look good for the rest of this season.
I fear you are blinded soley by the "1-4" fact. Three's more to it. Look at the stats. Stats are facts. We are better than last year. It's only 5 games in.
Miracles are tough to come by. Good coaching, discipline and motivation make for an easier solution. So lets go that way.
Why now? Why not before the season started. We had the same coaches as now. You know why now? It's called a panic button.
Given what we see [b]week after week[/b], do you think a new coach of Obie's choosing will end up with a record as bad as Charlie's?
[b]Week after week [/b]has told a different story everytime.

Montreal - slow start by a new team that was outplayed by a well honed veteran team

Toronto - A splendid game that showed the team firing on all cylinders. This game alone is a tremendously bright beacon only 5 games into the season.

Sakatchewan - Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Great game, probably the closest the undeafeated 5-0 Riders have come to losing so far. That was ours for the taking. Yes, a loss, but an encouraging one. Another very good performance by the Cats.

Calgary - Porous defence and bumbling turnovers that was all too reminiscent of last year.

Edmonton - Defence showed up , the offence did not. However a very winnable game yet again. 9 times out of 10 Woodcock makes that catch in bounds and most likely ends up winning the game for us. Yes, another loss, but a very winnable game none the less.

To group this collection 1-4 games as the same team and same performances as last year’s is just plain wrong, IMO.

Obie is a winner and his job is to fill seats and make the playoffs. Doing nothing is not an option for him.
Agreed. I don't know of anyone who is in favour of Obie doing nothing.
Optimism is a good thing. I had lots of that at the beginning of last season.
So then surely you can see how this IS different from last year, no?
But we are at the point now where the criticism is coming from all quarters. The "lets stay the course" folks are gradually being surrounded. I admire your resolve. But its time to consider a change of course Cap'n. I for one, will be happy to stand up and say I have been wrong and walk the plank if your scenario for the rest of the season plays out. The main thing for me is that the team becomes successful.

And that’s it from me for a while on Charlie’s situation. He is a good guy and I do not like being so critical about him.


I hear you, but sometimes I think the HC, like the QB, gets too much credit when you’re winning, and gets too much crticism when you’re losing. The other coaches, team leadership and chemistry are all elements that must come together in order for a team to be successful. And a significant portion of that process is time.

I hear your frustration. How may times can we sit and wait? I hear ya. But I feel we have to. Five games in is just way too early, especially with the weak eastern divison providing us with the luxury of being one game out of first place. One game out with 13 to go leaves a huge margin for Obie and Charlie.

We’ll see what happens the next few games.

I don’t want to start over right now, [i]again[/i]!

Cap'n.
Thanks for debating the issue in a reasonable manner. Two views on what needs to be done to make this a winning team.
There's only so much that can be said before we all become way too repetitive and that's how I feel about my contribution to the debate.
We'll see what route Obie takes.

I enjoyed it and hope to contitnue it as more games are played. It’ll be interesting to see what each of us thinks as more games unfold.

Right on! The Cats are the best gosh-darned 1-4 team in the league. Way better than Winnipeg. They will have at least 8 more wins and make the playoffs. Obie will make it happen!

They will have at least 8 more wins and make the playoffs. Obie will make it happen!
8) ....and if he doesn't make it happen ???? :roll:

I'm with the Cap'n ... what MANY here REFUSE to see is THIS team is COMPETITIVE ... UNLIKE the past couple (or more) seasons ...

The bottom line is there are still 13 games and PLENTY of time to get things GOING ...

Yes, I am concerned with our OFFENSIVE SCHEMES and LACk of creative use of our talent. However, as mentioned there is STILL TIME.

Maybe if the WHINERS, and COMPLAINERS decided to FOCUS their energy more POSITIVELY ... and got behind this SQUAD ... we could WILL the team to more SUCCESS ... just a thought.

Peace.

I'm more concerned about how they play in the last five games of the season rather than the fisrt five.

Cap'n:
There could be more things to be concerned about before we hit the last five games.
According to Ken Peters' blog this week, he spoke to Charlie about the wisdom of changing the players at this stage. Charlie told him to talk to Obie.
It seems Charlie wanted to keep this team intact when they came out of training camp. Obie apparently is not happy with some of the players..so guess who won that one.
If Charlie and Obie are not on the same page......well we'll see.

8) Sounds like the honeymoon is becoming strained already !!!
Not a good omen !!           <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->

I wouldn't take too much comfort from the standings. I think the personnel on this team is better than it's been but I'm not sure if they're more competitive.

The 'Peg is getting Milt back and Dinwiddie seems to be in a groove with Glen a more than capable backup. The only real question mark is replacing Simpson at MLB who is gone for 2008. I think they'll start winning some games.

The Argos are a different team since Joseph has been designated #1 QB and has been allowed to call his own plays. NFLer Bethel Johnson is returning soon. But for two plays, they would've won last week (Hardy's penalty and Dorsey's fumble). The Argos will start winning those games.

Montreal will be fine with their vets. They started strong and shouldn't tail off much.

The Cats will be hard pressed to stay with the pack. I'm not comfortable with the number of changes they make from one week to the next. It seems like it's 2 steps forward, 1 step back every week.

An Argo-Cat fan

Tipper: I’m not sure how to read this yet but it could be just the normal push and pull between any Head Coach and G-M. However my guess is that our record so far this year is making everyone nervous.
One more loss on Thursday and we could find out how seriously management sees the situation.

Speaking of standings...where are they on this site? I cant find them, thanks in advance,
Lester.

I agreed to debate with you privately,

because we were becoming repetitive

which we did, until I told you that
our views are so completely different

that there was no use debating

and you dismiss me as not worthy
of ever talking to you further

and an unsavoury character to boot.

And now you thank the Cap’n
for expressing his views?

I am more confused now.