Reffs

Can't watch CFL anymore. Even the war room can't get a call right. Argos fumbled the ball at the Als 15 and the ref blew it dead, saying he was down. Clearly it was a fumble, but when the ref blew it dead, nobody had possession of the ball. The Argos and Als both stopped playing. One Montreal player picked up the ball after the play was dead and was awarded the ball. Unbelievable. How can you give the ball to a team when nobody had possession of the ball when the whistle went? Is the rule closest to the ball gets it? Who knows what would have happened if play had of continued. Maybe an Argo would have caused another fumble. My point is, when the play was deemed over, nobody had possession of the ball so it should have gone back to the Argos. Could have been a 2 point game or the very least a 6 point game. Not only are the refs brutal, but the so called experts it the war room couldn't get it right. I left the game at that point. I've ripped up the remainder of my tickets and will NEVER attend or watch another game again. Can't wait until this bush league folds and we get real football north of the boarder. I've been a season ticket holder on and off for almost 44 years. Now I'm off for good. I'll drive to Buffalo, Pittsburgh, or Cleveland and watch real football. A world class city like Toronto, (without the buffoon mayor they have) should have a world class football team. We have baseball, hockey, basketball, and even soccer and lacrosse that are international, and its about time we got real football north of the boarder.

there's the door

nice first post.

bye

That has nothing to do with the refs and everything to do with the rules of the game. As far as I know its the same in the NFL as well.

sorry..."first"

mattsdad is back. :roll:

lol

thought the same thing. Must be some new aged fetish for him

Are you sure it isn't Matt?

lol. Matt who?

Don't you think we should have a pro football teams in Canada? This is the only sport that we don't have an international team. Next to Soccer, in Europe, football is the next biggest sport.

We don't need idiot fans like you. Learn the rules of our game!

Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!

He's right though. About the fumble/replay that is. The part about not watching anymore, well whatever, that's his choice.

I've said this for YEARS. I've posted about this on multiple football sites. If the whistle kills the play, but then if you are willing to change possession based on play AFTER the whisltle. Then the whistle means nothing. If Montreal is allowed to recover trhe football after the whistle, then Toronto should be allowed to tackle them after the whistle, but we all know that if they did they'd get a major foul. So, do we play to the whistle or not? This is an unacceptable situation.

On this particular play, Federkeil(?) #65? was in the vicinity for the Argos but he clearly let up. Now he probably would not have been the first player on the scene to recover the ball, but how many times do we see players attempt to scoop it up and fail, or fall on it only to have the ball squirt free? Many many MANY times we see this. One cannot ASSUME that Montreal would have recovered the ball had the Argonaut players not let up for the whistle (like they are supposed to). Now clearly upon further review the ball WAS fumbled, but I have argued for years that if the play is whistled dead before the ball is recovered, then the play should not be challengeable. It is the only fair thing to do.

To top it off, 3 minutes later, Marsh was sacked and the ball popped loose. At least 2 Toronto players were the closest to the bouncing ball but let up when they heard the whistle. The Alouette players continued playing after the whistle and recovered the ball. Toronto probably would have recovered that ball had the whistle not blown, but since Montreal played past the whistle and recovered it, there was no point in Toronto challenging the play. And had they challenged the play they would have clearly won it, because it was clearly a fumble.

In both cases Montreal was rewarded for NOT playing the whistle. This is not right. This is not safe. It's also not fair to put players into situations where they have to guess whether they are making a huge game changing play or whether they are taking a huge risk for a major foul or an injury. We can't have situations where the whistle isn't the final say. The players have to know when to stop playing. They have to know clearly when to stop playing. There can be no ambiguity.

I have said for years, ever since replay was introduced and these situations started happening, that if I was a coach, I would instruct my players to play full on regardless of whistle if they ever saw a loose ball. Not only to recover a fumble, to run it all the way to the endzone, OR to tackle any opponent who recovered a fumble and attempted to run anywhere with it. Because ever since replays have overturned fumbles on whistled plays, the whistle means NOTHING on these plays. This is inexcuseable.

Now. Where is the blame? Well, obviously the on field officials blew both of these fumble calls with premature whistles, but the game is fast paced, bang-bang and officials are human. However, the rules committee has all off season to set the replay protocols and have seen these types of plays on a regular basis every year and know what to expect. The command center has lots of time to review the plays. There is no excuse for the replay protocol to allow plays that are whistled dead on the field to be overturned or even challengeable. The result is FAR WORSE than the blown fumble call in the first place.

As stated above, this is covered in the rule book, available on the CFL website.

[b]I.R.A.R. 4 Fumble before runner down by contact[/b] Team A ball carrier fumbles the ball with Team B recovering. Officials rule down by contact at A’s 30 yard line. Replay shows that the ball was loose before the runner was down. [b]RULING:[/b] Reviewable play. B’s ball at point of recovery with no advance.
The on-field official blew the whistle based on what he saw. The replay official determined that the ball came loose before the player was down. He also determined that the Montreal player did not hesitate picking up the ball, and awarded him the fumble recovery. But as the whistle had gone, no advancement was allowed.

However, as prairiedog72 mentioned, the Als player did let up before grabbing the ball. So the "did not hesitate" part is debatable. Another of those judgement calls that the replay official has to make.

(Wish I had seen the OP's later post before spending time on this. :expressionless: )

Well said. That was exactly my point. Even video review couldn't get it right. They need to study the rules.

IRAR - WRONG. That is based on the team recovering the ball before the whistle. When nobody has possession, the ball goes back to the team that fumbled. Keep reading.

you can't arbitrarily award the ball to a team after a play is blown dead and nobody has possession. Where did you pull that one from?

you clearly dont have a clue about the game at all. Go back to tiddly winks.

But the Montreal player #20 Parker DID hesitate scooping up the ball. He let up, then changed his mind and decided to scoop it up. That is quite an assumption by the booth. We see almost every week the first player on a loose ball miss. We see this all the time. Remember the 2010 west final with Grice-Mullen fumbling the punt and a mad scramble chased the ball back into the endzone touched by SEVERAL players and the eventualy guy to recover it was Freeman who ran FIFTY YARDS to fall on the ball.

You can NEVER EVER ASSUME who would have recovered a fumble.

This rule needs to be changed. A fumble whistled dead before recovery should not be reviewable.

Go back under your bridge and come back when you have something to contribute to the topic.

Its you that doesn't know football. If you can't follow a simple play call like that. No one had possession. Its simple. Ball goes back to the team that fumbled it. Unfortunately, that's what the call should have been. How can you penalize a team for not continuing after the whistle. IDIOT!

Where does it say in this Instant Replay Approved Ruling (IRAR) that the ball has to be recovered before the whistle. And keep reading what? I posted the entire ruling.

From the 2011 CFL Rule Book. Where did you get your opinion from?

And given the fact that you refuse to accept relevant facts quoted from THE authoritative source on the rules of the game, I am concluding that you are here only to disagree.

Case closed.