QB's

I think the BC Lions have the best Quarterbacks in Dave Dickenson and Casey Printers but my belief is Casey is Better cause of his athletisism, the C.F.L has alot of great QB's Damon Allen in Toronto and Nealon Green in Saskatchewan, Henry Burris in Calgary, But I believe BC's gonna come out on top and if were lucky Casy can win M.V.P and could win the Grey Cup, Last year Casey was not used once and BC Lions lost well this year can be different it all depends on what the Lions learned from last year and what Wally Buono has learned from the experiance from last year,

I believe we in Canada have the best of football in regards to Quarterbacks than the N.F.L Warren Moon played in Edmonton and went to the N.F.L and was great I hope we do not loose any more CFL talent to the NFL I believe our game is fun to watch :smiley:

Casey WILL be better then Dave, a lot better

But he isn't there yet.

You teach Casey to quickly read a defence like DD can, and you have one of the greatest QB's to ever play in the CFL.

But you can't say much when DD has 75% passing, and a 110+ QB rating, with few interceptions.

The record for passing % in a year in the CFL is 66%

I don't think you can really "teach" a QB to read defences. Either the guy has a penchant for being able to think AND play or he doesn't. That is what separates the great QBs from the merely good ones. Many players just play and don't really think about what they are doing. Some, and they are rarer, can really analyze and see what others around them are doing and how it relates to them. They also study game film and team tendancies more and better than others might do and retain this knowledge in a way that works for them during games.

What a QB can do is to learn to recognize tendancies in other teams and learn situations and signs when teams might bring more guys than you have blocking or they have stacked up against you as they know a run is coming.

The best QBs who can read defences also are thinker types - Dave Dickenson, Damon Allen, Danny McManus to name a few of the best. Doug Flutie could do that also but he is unique in combining his zest to beat defences with his own bag of tricks including scrambling. Damon used to be a great runner when a bit younger than now but he is a thinker first and foremost at this stage of his career.

I see a raw talent and superior athleticsm in Casey Printers with his first instincts to be to beat you with his skills and determination over thinking about what the defence might do or how this particular CB is going to react to this play if we run it. Casey will always be looking for that big exciting play as he has excitement written all over him. I am not critical of the guy however as I love what he can do on the football field. What a great talent!!!! Love that guy's play and he will only get better.

Dave Dickenson's orientation is vastly different both from a physical attributes and philosophy of the game perspective. His first thoughts it seems to me are to beat the defence both by out thinking them down by down and series by series and executing the right play that will beat the D based on what they are doing. This stems from his overall philosophy of being prepared both physically and tactically. That is, his philosophy is to win not by big plays but by ball control and right plays in right situations. Tactically he will try and pick a defence apart with passes that may not go for big gains but keep the defence spread across the field as they know he doesn't care which receiver he hits and he is not going to force the ball downfield dangerously. Once defences are stretched and he sees the deep open guy, he takes it. But as BC fans can see this might not be every game as he is looking first at the 4 short mid-range guys or AW and not first to go long.

I suspect Dave Dickenson like Danny McMannus works hard at looking at film and tendancies of opponents in all situations so that he can make a reasoned guess if he needs to audible at the line of scrimmage. If Dave D is not game planning, I am certain he is still studying film closely.

The longer serving QBs are likely to be the thinkers over the reactors who are using their athleticism first and foremost. As those skills decline with age, it is the thinkers who can hang on for long careers at the QB spot.

This is not to suggest that Casey can't read a defence. He is no dummy or he wouldn't be near Wally Buono. It is more about orientation to playing that I am commenting upon. Casey to me is the type of guy to say to himself... 'who gives a ... about what they are doing? I can beat that guy with a throw that my great receivers (Geroy etc) can catch' and look at it much like a basketball pass to a guy for a dunk.

To try and compare who will be better in their careers to me is hard to say now. Casey could with his abilities and talents make the NFL under certain circumstances, while Dave D maybe never really got a fair shot based on physical attributes alone much like why Buck Pierce ranked no. 22 in US college football last year didn't get an NFL draft call - size.

NFL guys get more money so if that is the measure, the NFL guy is better.
Dave could win more national championships so it is hard to say.

Ricky Ray and Dave D could both tell us how much it sucks to be there and not really given a chance to show your skills. That is how it works in pro sports, right or wrong. Look at Jeff Garcia. If not for Bill Walsh he might not have had any chance at an NFL career. Each team and coach has differing views on who or what makes a good player. That is endemic to all of us who have ever coached young men or women athletes. What I like in a player, another coach hates.

It is all good stuff to speculate on. The trick for a coach is work with each type of player so that they and your team can enjoy success. That means adjusting how you work with each type as a good coach gets the best of what his players can offer.

Yikes, sorry about that last post guys.... I started writing it and didn't edit due to stopping and starting again. Ok, I just blathered on and didn't go back to it before hitting send.


Pierce-I learned a lot about perseverance. Things aren’t always going to go your way. I’ve become so much more aware of the realities of the game and life…Things can be taken away from you. You can either sit back…or overcome it and fight through it....

My sense is that the Lions have possibly the best collection of coaches ever in the history of the franchise given the talent that has been assembled and what they are getting out of it on the field.

I have watched 2.5 training sessions of the Lions recently and as usual you tend to watch QBs a lot more than the rest.

I am impressed a bit by the QB coach and how he works with the 4 of these guys. This creates an environment where players can improve if they are 1 or 4. They seem to view their playes as assets not expenses and you treat assets better unlike say, 'coach' Daley with the Bombers and how Spurgeon Wynn's star has fallen there.

At the game Friday, I watched Kruck go around and shake hands with the players and coaches during the pre-game warmup and thought that was a nice touch. Not all coaches do that and I know I do that as a coach only selectively as I am usually focused on some other preparatory issues.

STEFF KRUCK - QUARTERBACKS COACH

Kruck joins the Lions from Kutztown University, where he was the Quarterbacks coach and Offensive and Recruiting Coordinator in 2004. Kruck was also a member of West Chester University’s coaching staff (Offensive Coordinator, Recruiting Coordinator) from 1993 to 2003, where he coached two all-American Quarterbacks, Al Niemela and Dave MacDonald as well as two All-American Receivers, Billy Hess and Kevin Ingram.

During his tenure with West Chester, the team’s pass offence ranked fifth nationally in NCAA Division II in 1999 and the school led Division II in team passing offence, in addition to the quarterback leading the nation in total offence in 1998. Kruck served as Quarterbacks-Receivers coach, Offensive Coordinator, and Recruiting Coordinator at Fordham University from 1989-1992.

Kruck has appeared as a Guest Coach for five CFL teams: BC Lions (2003-2004), Calgary Stampeders (1997-2002), Saskatchewan Roughriders (1996), Ottawa Rough Riders (1995), and the Toronto Argonauts (1994).

Prior to his coaching career, Kruck played at Alabama under Coach Paul Bryant.

A native of Philadelphia, Kruck and his wife, Monica, along with their daughter, Bridget, currently reside in Lynden, Washington.


Pierce-I learned a lot about perseverance. Things aren’t always going to go your way. I’ve become so much more aware of the realities of the game and life…Things can be taken away from you. You can either sit back…or overcome it and fight through it....

Meh, was a really good post, read it to the end

:)
The best QBs who can read defences also are thinker types - Dave Dickenson, Damon Allen, Danny McManus to name a few of the best. Doug Flutie could do that also but he is unique in combining his zest to beat defences with his own bag of tricks including scrambling. Damon used to be a great runner when a bit younger than now but he is a thinker first and foremost at this stage of his career.
I always really enjoy reading your posts Football 16. Your post on quarterbacks reading defences and the different skills and orientation of Dickenson and Printers is the best I've read on a comparison of both quarterbacks and the approach to the position.

Perhaps the only area that we slightly disagree is in the area of quarterbacks being taught how to read defences. Over time most quarterbacks, if they have the proper approach, can be taught to read defences. A classic example of that is former B.C. Lions quarterback Joe Paupao. Relying on his rifle arm early in his career he couldn't read a defence at all and constantly threw into double coverage. At the end of his career he was quite adept at reading defences and in fact, threw twenty two completions in row in one game. Coaches are able to give quarterbacks reads which enable them to determine which reciever to throw to on any given play.
What separates the great quarterbacks from the good quarterbacks is the intangible of instinct, the ability to see the whole field, and most importantly, to slow the game down. For most great quarterbacks the game is played slower than anyone else on the field. In fact its a rare ability that all great athletes have, whether its Wayne Gretzky or Steve Nash. It's something coaches can't give them. They are able to step outside of the 'programmed' read to see a defensive back slip, or see broken defensive assignment away from the play and make the defence pay.

While Dickenson is refered to as a 'thinking' quarterback and Casey is not has nothing to do with their intelligences.. Printers is very bright and does know how to read defences. However, he doesn't have Dickenson's experience or orientation, at present. If quarterbacks last, over time, life fine wine, they become 'thinking' mans quarterbacks. In fact their long term survival and success is based upon making that adjustment.
I think you've hit it bang on when you say that Dickenson will set up the whole field and systematically try to beat you whereas Casey, even though he can read a defence, has the orientation that he can beat you with his athleticism, determination, and his arm.

I really also believe that Dickenson is thinking much more of the entire dirve while Casey is focused more in the present, on beating you with one single play. Dickenson also sees the entire play better. However, Chapdelaine calls all the plays from the bench so the quarterbacks on the Leos have only the opportunity to audible unless they go into their 'no huddle' offence.

I really enjoyed reading your insights on the NFL game compared to the CFL game. When I played in the United States I learned how rigid the thinking is. Coaches have a protype of most positions, especially at quarterback. While the NFL recently has changed, in that they are looking for more athletic quarterbacks, height and weight are still prime considerations. It wasn't always that way in the NFL, back in the days of Fran Tarkenton, but evolved. NFL coaches are adverse to risk whereas in the CFL coaches have much more of an open mind to players and stereotypes are much less rigid. There are exceptions in the NFL like New England coach Bill Behlachekwho drafted 5'9 reciever
Deon Branch after having two 5'10" recievers on his roster. People questioned the decision, saying the Pats needed a protype Terrell Owens tall strong reciever, but Belachek proved them wrong. Politics also play a more important consideration in the NFL where a higher round draft choice will be given every opportunity to prove himself in comparison to a Ricky Ray who will not get the same kind of opportunity.

My personal view is that Casey Printers is a long way from the NFL and would be wise to stay in the CFL. His game is more sutied to the CFL. I enjoy watching Dickenson and Printers play for different reasons. I consider us Leo fans lucky to have both at the present time, although I know the situation cannot exist forever. I also really like Buck Pierce and Jarious Jackson and can't wait to see them play. We're oozing with depth.

I think the key for the Leos, at the quarterback position, is to design plays and game plans, where possible, which takes advantages of their strengths. Each plays a different style and the offence, to a degree, should be a reflection of their style, when each is in the game.

Great to read your comments Football 16!!

Thanks Blitz. You certainly know all aspects of this great game yourself and your posts for me are must reads.

You are right about Joe Paopao and his progress from a gunner to reading defences better. He possessed the mindset to make the conversion from being too focused in the present and wanting to beat a defender with pure athleticism and determination.

That long-term is the challenge for Casey Printers exactly as you describe it above. That is it in a nut shell. Casey unlike the long term great QBs right now enjoys the moment including the celebration of good plays with his fans like on Friday night. The great QBs with long careers know the fans are loving it and simply get on to the next play and doing the business. He is young and he will learn as his game and learning keep progressing.

In the few practice sessions I attended, I see Jarius Jackson a bit more the athletic 'I will beat you sort of a guy' gunning the throws and going long rather than protecting the ball and ensuring possession. Not seen really enough of him to make a fair call on his style as a pro so this may be a completely unfair comment that doesn't stand up to the facts or how he plays day to day.

My favourite, Buck Pierce, has the makings of a Dickenson type QB. He looks eager to learn, possesses good passing skills, understands the need to vary the point of attack, and has a strong desire to protect the ball over looking great with a high risk long bomb. He did well in the Calgary game I thought. I hadn't read the article on how good a guy he was until this weekend. That is the one I posted about him and Aunt Mabel. That is a great read that speaks volumes about his character.

One Rapp line I liked about passing deep --- 'When you throw the long bomb, three things can happen and two of them are bad. Now that you know the odds, do you want to reconsider making that choice too many times in a game?' I use that line as a soccer coach with players who are new and show signs of seeing a long bomb upfield the right tactic too often.

Blitz, you are bang on with the two different styles producing a different kind of excitement with Printers and Dickenson. These are both top players and both deserve all the accolades they are given. I know I sure have confidence in both of them but really admire the DD way as I like the thinking style QBs for the long term as they will always fare better when the opponent's D is on fire than the pure athletic QBs who can make great plays.


Pierce-I learned a lot about perseverance. Things aren’t always going to go your way. I’ve become so much more aware of the realities of the game and life…Things can be taken away from you. You can either sit back…or overcome it and fight through it....