QB Index: Collaros making his case

The QB Index is a weekly power ranking of quarterbacks across the CFL. The ranking reflects recent performance, historical value, statistical indicators, team success and overall on-field evaluation.

This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://www.cfl.ca/2021/11/02/qb-index-collaros-making-case/

Why do you keep ranking Reilly so high? You talk about historical value and team success as criteria but what has Reilly really done? In his last three seasons his team has finished out of the playoffs twice and this year appears that they will be out again. The year that they made the playoffs? A crossover that they promptly lost. In the end the only thing that counts are wins and Reilly hasn't been able to get them in a long time.

I'm not sure where Bo belongs but I don't see him as 3rd. Not with a minus 6 on the TD/INT ratio & having an efficiency rating slightly above Cornelius. That's his area zone now. If you're looking at wins, every team but the hopeless Lions, RB's & Elks have as many or more than the Stamps. Masoli, McLeod B-T & Fajardo have all gotten better win results & higher efficiency ratings. Leaning on his past rep IMO. As for Reilly, I feel for him but not sure he's #2 either. It's going to be interesting to see which QB's aren't back next year & what kind of salaries some of the higher paid ones are going to command.

I think Lions are done though there's hope if they beat the Stamps. Reilly went to BC to win championships & was paid a lot to do so. If they're out of the playoffs again I can't see them investing that kind of money in Reilly going forward.

I like Masoli in the 2 hole. Mike Reilly should be in the 4 hole. :thinking:

Just a quick correction. In the last 3 years his team has been out of the playoffs THREE times not two. This will be 4 years in a row out of the playoffs, not even a crossover. I brought this up in the " Is Riley a tough Guy...." thread and was told it's because of the teams around him. The highest paid player in the league should be able to generate at least one pathetic crossover in 4 years IMO. I guess dressing up as a clown for the road trips and media scrums garners some sort of merit points for those who consistently give this guy Elite status.

Collaros is a real good QB. In fact all he has to do is not screw up. If Collaros misses the Grey Cup, Bombers will still win. If Willie Jefferson misses, all bets are off. No team plans around the Bomber QB. But they all plan around there pass rush. Specifically Jefferson. He is by far and away the MOP in the League. Why? No team plans around any individual on any team like they do around WJ. Having him on a Bomber defence is like having one or two extra people on his side of the field.

Sorry. Can't agree with you on that one. If Collaros is hurt, you have McGuire. Since when have the Bombers brought in any QB who was a legitimate starter in the last decade? Drew Willy, Matt Nichols & Collaros all brought in from elsewhere. The backups they "discovered" before McGuire there were Bryan Bennett & Dominique Davis around for years. McGuire has thrown 9 passes. It would be 2007 all over again with Dinwiddie subbing in IMO. The reason the Bombers are good on offence is Collaros who can make all the throws, not Nichols who checked down on Harris all the time & Streveler, the CFL's version of Tim Tebow. I don't have much faith in the Bombers' recent record of unearthing CFL QB's.

I would agree that the Bombers have a dismal record of unearthing QB's with McManus the last one I remember of any consequence. Before that? Dieter Brock and Don Jonas maybe. The Stamps are hands down the best in that department. Hard to criticize Streveler though as he remains employed in the NFL, which not many other CFL second string QB's can brag about. If he gets cut the Bombers will happily take him back next year. Maybe more Lamar Jackson than Tim Tebow. The Bombers are much better at unearthing kickers for other teams. Bernie Ruoff, Castillo (now returned), Paredes and Jon Ryan immediately come to mind.

I don't agree that the Bombers are done without Collaros. While that situation certainly would be a cause for serious concern, the Bombers defence appears to be historically good and might be able to win a game without any points from the offence via pick sixes and causing turnovers in field goal range, along with allowing no 4th quarter points. I can't say for sure whether Jefferson is more valuable than Collaros but he may be. I point out as well that Jeffcoat and Bighill are both also having defensive MOP type seasons and as the defensive signal caller Bighill is also extremely important for that reason alone.

You gotta be kidding Jon. Lamar Jackson is rated #4 in the NFL QB ratings this week. Lamar Jackson is an All-Star. Streveler isn't a starter & likely never will be in the NFL. In the CFL he was a good compliment to Harris in the running game but, as a passer, he's not very good. 19 TD's & 19 INT's with Winnipeg. Meh. As for Jefferson, if I have to choose between a great QB or a great DE, I'll take the QB every time. No offence to Jefferson - he's disruptive & a great player. He had a great year in 2018 in Regina too but they finished 2nd & lost in the semi-final. A great QB can take the ball & make things happen. A DE doesn't have the ball in his hands every play.

I didn’t say he was anywhere as good as Lamar but was responding to your comparison to Tebow. He is also nowhere near as bad as Tebow. He is like Lamar as he is arguably the best running QB the CFL has ever seen, possibly Doug Flutie excepted. Lamar is arguably the best running QB the NFL has ever seen, Cunningham or Vick possibly excepted. Lamar gets it done with speed and moves. Streveler gets it done with strength and power by running over people and carrying them on his back. They both usually get the first down. Incidentally Streveler ran the 40 in 4.3 in college so he is also fast.

As to Jefferson, I said I didn’t know if he was more valuable than Collaros. You are not wrong by pointing out that the QB has the ball in his hands every play and normally is obviously the most valuable player. There are teams like Winnipeg today (perhaps) and past Super Bowl champs like Tampa ( the first time) and Baltimore that won with below average QB’s whose job it was to only manage the game and not turn the ball over. See Nicholls, Matt for another example. As pointed out by @kellyhelen, opposing offenses must always take into account Jefferson when game planning and play calling, which is pretty influential for one defensive guy. Willie and his pterodactyl like wingspan always seems to make a clutch play late in the game to either turn the momentum or seal the victory, certainly more than Collaros has. In my opinion we’ll probably never know who is more important to the Bombers if both stay healthy or both are injured for the playoffs. We may have some indication of who is more valuable if one of them goes down. Let’s hope that doesn’t happen as I always prefer to see two teams without injuries battle it out in a winner take all game. Unlike the year Dinwiddie made his first start ever in the Grey Cup. Hopefully we won’t have to see that again for any team.

The Bombers in 2019, before Collaros took over as QB, there was Jefferson, Jeffcoat, Bighill, 2 All-Star DB's in Rose & Sayles, Streveler & Nichols were 8-7. Pretty much the bulk of the defence. Collaros came in, the Bombers went 3-0 down the stretch & ran the table to win the Grey Cup. He went 6-0 including playoffs & 10-1 this year. There is a reason even mediocre STARTING QB's in the CFL get $300K a year & the top guys over $500K while Jefferson & Boateng are the highest paid DE's @ 205K this year. The QB position is THE most important position on the field. Much has been said about the Winnipeg D & there is no disputing they are good. But it has also been brought up in the media that the average scoring/game in the CFL has not been this low since 1974. The offences range from inconsistent to awful. I love what Jefferson does but it's been done before. The greatest DE the CFL has seen was Cameron Wake. In 2 seasons he was Rookie of the Year & also Defensive Player of the year both his years. He had 39 sacks in 2 seasons & turned that into a long NFL career - virtually unstoppable. Willie has had his chances down south but, for whatever reason, didn't catch on with anyone. That's not a criticism - just stating the facts.

Pantsonfire, incorrect
Collaros played only the last Winnipeg regular season game week 20, Cal @ Wpg. Then went on to win the WSF Cal, WF Sask & GC Ham. Collaros was 4 / 4 In Wpg 2019......10 / 1 thus far in 2021.

However Collaros was traded from Tor on Oct 9th 2019. But didn't see any game time in the first 2 games.

Fine. He's 14-1 rather than 16-1 & the Bombers were 10-7 without him. Still Jefferson, Bighill, Jeffcoat & Co. were 3 games over .500 without Collaros, 13 games over .500 with him. Still proves my point. Collaros, like any good QB, has a greater impact on the game over a season than a DE.

Yup, now correct, was just pointing the W/L record.

Thanks. Appreciated.

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Again, I’m not saying you’re wrong but point out that this is such an unusual situation. By that I mean the historically epic defence the Bombers possess. It may be they are solely responsible for the drop in scoring league wide. I don’t know the numbers but it would be interesting to see what the numbers would be after adjusting for their defence, say by removing them from the equation. It might be that there would be no or little drop in scoring if looked at that way. There is no other year that this year can be compared to, so far at least, because no other team has ever allowed fewer points, and the season is shorter. That could of course change over the next 3 meaningless Bomber games, especially if starters sit or play a half or less.

You are of course correct that typically a QB is easily the most important position on the field. And Collaros is a vast improvement over Nicholls. But losing Sayles and Winston hasn’t had a great effect I would say considering the awesome job their replacements have done. I also have noticed that Sayles has been burned for a few long TD’s lately and he doesn’t look as good in BC as he did here. Certainly Bomber fans thought he was excellent when he was here.

I also must point out that Collaros has a better group of receivers than the Bombers have had in at least 20 years. The Bombers Canadian depth and overall depth, which has peaked this year, also helps. Bomber fans remember the Joe Mack days and his failed theory that you could win in the CFL if you had the best Americans and to hell with stocking up on Canadian talent, which arguably the Bombers have the best of in the league at present. I think the Bombers are that rare team with a Baltimore Ravens style defence that could consistently win without the offense scoring a touchdown. But thanks to the prowess of Collaros as you point out, I don’t think they will have to. After he was injured in 2015 in what was shaping up to be an MOP season, I don’t think it’s controversial that Collaros did little of note until he joined the Bombers. Did he all of a sudden find and dispose of the kryptonite he unknowingly carried? No. I think he joined an awesome team. And the extent to which that team makes him better is not insignificant. At his age and with his injury history he didn’t all of a sudden find another gear. Arguably you could put several other starting QB’s in his spot and they would look good as well. I think Reilly would excel if he had all day to throw. But please not MacBeth.

Nevertheless I am very happy with Collaros and wouldn’t want any other current QB to replace him. He should also be given credit for adapting to the Bombers in lightning quick fashion and fitting in with teammates extremely well, which is not always a given as we know.

Collaros is no doubt a strength, as are other parts of the Bombers. But I will repeat my oft posted opinion that the main reason the Bombers are so good is because they dominate both lines, usually by a large margin. They lost to Toronto in the only game they inexplicably didn’t dominate the lines. In the last Grey Cup, just like they have done all of this year, they thrashed and manhandled the Ticats from the get go and as has become their trademark they got stronger while their opposition grew weaker as the game wore on. The Grey Cup wasn’t even remotely close. I would argue that the single most important factor and reliable indicator as to who wins a professional football game, assuming a team doesn’t turn the ball over 6 times, is which team wins the battle of the lines. There is of course no stat for this, although some stats such as sacks, sacks allowed and time of possession, among others, might provide some indication. For me I just see or feel as the game wears on who is winning the battle of the lines. I know that is unscientific but you might want to ask Chiefs fans about that and their O line being blown up in the Super Bowl and most of this year to see if they have noticed as well.

I’ll end by saying that I am not saying you are wrong but merely offering some different views and perhaps some food for thought. Your views are perfectly valid.

You have 4 teams who are allowing under 20 points per game. A 5th, the Als is just over 20 points a game. By scoring 30 pts/game shouldn't they be contributing to HIGHER scoring? Offences in the league are inconsistent to bad. There are 7 clubs who average between 15 & 23 or so points scored per game. THAT's why scoring is down. Most play 1 or 2 games vs the Bombers out of 14. How does that impact their low scoring out of the 11 or more they play with everyone else? You give the Bombers way too much credit for affecting the league in general. The Bombers are a good solid team & worthy of their record. But there are some really bad clubs this year. That has a lot to do with it.

Line 3 should read...."Winnipeg, by scoring 30 points/game....

My apologies.

There certainly are a lot of bad clubs. I was just throwing out the logical thought that the Bombers bring the league wide scoring average down every week, and it doesn’t matter who they play. As I said I haven’t crunched any numbers but certainly your point is true that the Bombers offense brings the average scoring up, although the defence brings it down even more. The fact that the Bombers are often way ahead and just running out the clock in the 4th quarter, now that I think of it, would also bring the average scoring down,BC game excepted. Perhaps their effect isn’t big enough to make a difference as you say. I was just curious and throwing it out there. I have seen many others post about the poor quality of QB’s in the league this year, which I agree with. That would logically be the biggest reason that scoring is down if you agree with that concept.