Every team goes on a losing skid eventually.
When this happens to Montreal and they go on to a , say 4-14, season, will they survive?
would more than 14,000 fans show up?
are the CFL fans really there?
Every team goes on a losing skid eventually.
There's an easy way to answer your question
Let's turn to history
In 1981 the Alouettes, despite a pitiful 3-13 season posted an average attendance of 29,257
Second best in the East (after Toronto)
And 4th best in the 9-team CFL
Because of some questionable Skalbania dealings and debts...the Alouettes folded and were reborn under Charles Bronfman (owner) as the Montreal Concordes
That's when attendance started to fall
1982: 4th East: 2-14-0: 15,391
1983: 4th East: 5-10-1: 23,156
1984: 3rd East: 6-9-1: 17,349
1985: 2nd East: 8-8-0: 22,068
Then the Concordes were re-reborn for one season as the "New" Alouettes
1986: 3rd East: 4-14: 10,587
And they folded June 24, 1987
The day before the season opened
Probably not a coincidence that you mentioned a 4-14 season
The 1986 4-14 season knocked the Alouettes out of town for a decade
Until the Baltimore Stallions needed a new home
And ultimately U2 provided it for them.
If you're like me
Two football teams going under, and one baseball team
It's not something you forget
I still haven't been able to watch a complete baseball game since the end of the Expos
Some change may well be coming to this team in the near future
While AC's star may be burning down
Another will soon be lifted into the firmament
And all will be well
Avec Les Oiseaux
Just to be clear
My post is not about Calvillo in the least.
It is just a question to Als backers ast to whether there are sufficient fans in Montreal to suppoert a team when it goes through its inevitable losing skein as happens to all teams.
As much as I hate to admit it this city kinda reminds me of Denver. The avalanche in the NHL at one point had a crazy long sellout streak going while they were consistently one of the top teams in the league. Then Roy retired and the team went south and attendance took a massive dive. I can kinda see the same thing happening here with the als. Maybe not to the point of folding but we certainly dont have the fan base that the riders have
For Flag, if you have seen any of my posts, attendance has always been one of my deep concerns where football is concerned.
To answer your immediate question, I would say that attendance would take a nose-dive. I base this on the fact that, with the exception of hockey, other sports do not garnish the same fanaticism (the word "fan" has its root in "fanatic"). In other words, other sports only draw if they win. We inherited a good Stallions team, and that brought the fans out and they stayed. Also, this has been a good decade for football in Quebec. The Universite of Montreal and Laval have both expanded their stadia and are producing some good football players. BUT! Let the team go into a slide, as you suggest, and the boo-birds will be out in numbers with fewer and fewer fans each week.
Now people can discuss the demise of the Expos and the two "deaths" of CFL football in Montreal 'til we're blue in the face, but I don't believe that there are 40,000 - 50,000 loyal football fans in this city - we only back winners! I posted this in another string, but I draw a comparison (albeit a possibly unfair one!) between the Als and the Irish of ND. There have been some pretty lean years in recent history where the Fighting Irish are concerned. Their W-L record is nothing to write home about. However, 80,000 screaming fans show up each and every home game - rain, sleet, snow - without fail! Now, this of course is a completely different system with alumni, the local community.... Nonetheless, the South Bend community considers ND their "home team". There are definitely die-hard football fans in South Bend, Indiana! I wish I could say the same about Montreal and every CFL city!
Flag and Senior… there are currently 20000 season ticket holders (approximately). The remaining 5000 or so seats are sold to the general public.
Whether they manage to keep 20k season ticket holders after more than 1 losing season is anyone’s guess.
They had a losing season when Popp decided he could hold down the HC as well as GM positions.
Fans came out the following season.
I don't think fans would abandon the Alouettes after 1 bad season
From history it seems obvious that the team has to show
A lack of direction and vision
A consistently bad performance over several seasons
Coupled with questionable ownership and management
And so a dubious future.
Jim Popp is key
As is owner Whittenhall.
Assuming Calvillo retires and McPherson is lost to another team
Popp will conceivably find us another quarterback
Of course great CFL quarterbacks are a rarity
And you have to on a figure 2-5 year maturing process
So rot may conceivably set in
Before the Alouettes get on their feet again
And we are not a patient people.
Assuming Calvillo retires and McPherson is lost to another teamYou may be ready to assume that McPherson is lost to another team, I for one am not ready just yet.
Nor am I. He signed an extension with the Als when he could have tested the market and doubtless found interested suitors, so that tells me he wants to be an Alouette. So his loyalty to the team is commendable. . .but this is a business after all.
I have this feeling (and it's nothing more than a gut feeling), that, whatever happens these playoffs/Grey Cup, AC retires at the end of the year.
So that means that McPherson will quite likely be our starter in 2012.
Unless one of two things happens:
Ricky Santos beats him out in training camp (unlikely but one never does know; back in 2004 I think it was, no one thought an unknown named Casey Printers would beat out Spergeon Wynn for the #2 spot in BC but he did and went on to win MOP that year);
We engineer a multiplayer blockbuster trade with another team that involves McPherson going elsewhere along with a few other players to, say, a western team such as Edmonton or Calgary and a package of players coming our way (maybe including Ricky Ray or Henry Burris).
Now, I'm not suggesting that either of those scenarios are either likely or desirable. . . just that they are within the realm of possibility.
Amazing how difficult it is for some people to follow a simple logical chain
This thread is about what happens if the Alouettes start losing
Will there be support for an unsuccessful Alouettes team
The scenarios fitting this hypothetical involve Calvillo and McPherson in the following ways:
Calvillo continues playing next year
Whether he's successful or not McPherson grows increasingly impatient with sitting on the bench
He doesn't last out the year and the Alouettes make some kind of trade involving the disgruntled AD.
Calvillo retires the year after leaving the Alouettes sans quarterback.
They lose several seasons in a row and go under.
Calvillo and McPherson share duties next year
The team does poorly and continues to fail under McPherson (or whoever) for several more seasons after Calvillo retires.
Calvillo retires after this season or next
McPherson is a bust...and the Alouettes go on a multi-season slide into obscurity
These are the 3 most likely scenarios leading to the Alouettes having losing seasons and losing support.
Calvillo retires after this season
The Alouettes re-tool the offence, bringing in talent better suited to an offence shaped around McPherson's unique skillset. The Allouettes return to dominance after this 1 year hiccup...and the city embraces them as never before.
Calvillo and McPherson share duties next season. They ransack the league with the best quarterback platoon in decades. As Calvillo moves slowly towards retirement...McPherson continues to gain confidence and experience. The torched is finally handed down and the Alouettes see continued and exciting success under McPherson and the 2nd gen Alouettes Dynasty.
Naturally one of the last two outcomes are is the way things should go.
One of the first three is...from what I can tell...the most likely
"Projection if Losing"
Senior I pretty much agree with all of your scenarios there. Just wish you'd left out this condescending remark:
Now, as to the 3 scenarios you pose first:
Is the most dismal, and I suspect (hope?) the most unlikely. . . even if McPherson were to be traded and AC was retired, that wouldn't leave the team without a QB, I can't imagine a trade scenario involving McPherson being moved unless there was a QB coming back the other way.
Dismal as well, but again I think (hope?) it's pretty unlikely to occur. But not impossible, I agree.
As for your two hopeful scenarios, I really like both of them !!
Now, to expand on what I said about a blockbuster trade.
Imagine I'm Jim Popp, and Edmonton calls me. They want Adrian McPherson, Shea Emry, Kerry Watkins, and Billy Parker. In exchange, they offer me Ricky Ray, Rod Davis, Andrew Nowacki, and Chris Thompson. QB, MLB, WR, and HB each way; three imports and one non-import each way.
I don't jump at it. . .
But I don't hang up the phone either. I'd listen, think about it, and maybe there'd be a counter offer or two thrown back and forth. Worth thinking about anyway.
The original post has NOTHING to do with one trick ponies-
Does Montreal have enough CFL fans to support a losing Als team?
My Gawd men.
PS Thanks to JKM and mada for their responses.
My advice about trying to control the direction of your original post:
On this point it's no good being a control freak
They take on a life of their own
And will go whither they will
Let it go:wink:
to the great offender
it’s my party and I’ll cry if I want to.
MEN … show some discipline if you can. i find montreal fans? completely non thoughtful. completely current monntreal- centric. surely
Can Montreal sustain losing seasons?
Yes because they have in the past. What it can not sustain. Is bad ownership, so if the losing season are deemed to be because of bad management or or disinterested ownership it becomes a problem. Simple.