Starts at the top and its been that way for a long time. This stadium is not going to solve the problems Hamilton has. Not even close. I really believe there is no vision here. I used to go downtown to shop ,to the restaurants and to the movies but We don't anymore.1) Jackson Square is full of dollar stores, theres rift raft all over the place, puke on the side walks and you have to pay for parking. 2) Its a pain getting there, takes me forever from the east end. 3) Walking outside towards John ST. no way, been acosted around that area (probably due to the drug clinics there. Just a small sample of why the stadium won't do anything for the downtown. And how close will it be? The problem is no one spends money down there, no good business will go where they can't make money. Faster for me to get up the mountain to the meadowlands or limeridge or burlington and avoid the rift raft and free parking to boot. Between the wife and kids we spend trust me we spend, just not downtown. Will a new stadium and dollar stores attract me to the core,nope. Clean the city up first then build stadiums. Oh and I am a season ticket holder, We tailgate and to be honest in the last 25 years I've never spent a cent in the surrounding IWS businesses.
No need to apologize. I fully respect what you’ve said.
As a former mountain resident, I used to do similar things and if my wife & I ever chose to live in Hamilton again, we’d be avoiding the downtown core like the plague. I took her there once when we were in town visiting and to say she was unimpressed would be the worst understatement I could make.
The problem with every one of your statements is that they are totally false.
Do you realize that the crime rate at Limeridge Mall is higher than in the downtown.
I spend most of my entertainment dollars in the downtown and have for the last 30 years and I live on the Mountain. It is no more dangerous than being at a Ticat- Argo game. I have never been assaulted or accosted. I park my car on the street most of the time and it is always there when I get back to it at 3 in the morning. I walk around the downtown late at night without problems or threats. Sure there are street people but they are harmless. Most of them are just trying to keep living. It’s no different than any other city of similar size. Have you ever been to downtown Toronto day or night. It’s crawling with homeless people. They sleep of the subway grates in cold weather.
On the weekends downtown Hamilton is teeming with people enjoying themselves at bars and restaurants. The downtown is not as bad as you think it is and is getting better all the time.
My wife and I spend virtually every Saturday morning at the Hamilton Market and we grab our lunch at one of the restaurants in the area. (Reardon’s is great if you want a deli sandwich) Every downtown core has it’s problems but I see no more “riff raff” in Hamilton than I would walking down Yonge St. in Toronto. Jackson Square’s problems have everything to do with the suburbanization that Hamilton went through in the '80’s. Limeridge had a huge impact on the downtown core. I can see why the Mayor and council are reticent when it comes to putting a stadium out in the burbs.
The problem with every one of your statements is that they are totally false.
Do you realize that the crime rate at Limeridge Mall is higher than in the downtown.
I spend most of my entertainment dollars in the downtown and have for the last 30 years and I live on the Mountain. It is no more dangerous than being at a Ticat- Argo game. I have never been assaulted or accosted. I park my car on the street most of the time and it is always there when I get back to it at 3 in the morning. I walk around the downtown late at night without problems or threats. Sure there are street people but they are harmless. Most of them are just trying to keep living. It's no different than any other city of similar size. Have you ever been to downtown Toronto day or night. It's crawling with homeless people. They sleep of the subway grates in cold weather.
On the weekends downtown Hamilton is teeming with people enjoying themselves at bars and restaurants. The downtown is not as bad as you think it is and is getting better all the time.
You are probably right, but perception is everything. Went to the Elton John concert a couple of weeks ago and high-tailed it out of there to go out for a late snack and drink on the mountain where we felt safe. I bet I was not alone.
My mom's neighbour is in her 80s. She has one lung. She recently broke her hip, so she walks with a walker. She goes by from the mountain (near Upper Wellington and Stone Church) to the market on a weekly basis. If she can do it, anyone can.
I lived downtown for 7 years before recently moving to the mountain. Downtown is not safe. In the evening, take a walk down James street north or in Gore Park. It is teeming with agressive panhandlers, drug dealers, drunks and homeless teens. The city has done nothing to improve this except spend more money on police walking the streets, and put "big bother" police cameras downtown: a total waste of taxpayers money.
Their other big City Hall accomplishment to improve downtown: changing Hamilton's one-way steets to two way, all at a huge cost, and with no positive result, except causing more car accidents in the core.
But putting a stadium at the West Harbour with no anchor tenant will cure all that!
Perception is as they say reality. People outside of Hamilton do not have a favourable impression of the downtown core. Why some people think a ten event stadium in the North End will magically revitalize the core is baffling. The TiCats have to reach new fans as the 20,000 or so who attend now are not enough to keep the team financially viable. A new stadium with highway access so out-of-towners don't have to drive through Hamilton's social problems is preferable to the alternative.
Biggest issue is that the city's own numbers best case scenario is that without a tenant it would cost 2.8 million a year to subsidize a stadium at WH.
So according to the mayor 1.3 million dollars maintaining 240 jobs (Young's payroll) and another 300 part time jobs and extra hours for fast foot , ticket , extra security is a terrible deal for the city.
BUT
2.8 million with little to no jobs in return is A Ok.
This alone proves the man is dishonest and is hidding something. With the Ticats pulling out maybe the spotlight can be turned where it should and questions asked of Mister mayor.
When I worked in Toronto, I saw far more disadvantaged people than I do in Hamilton. And to be honest, I'm always surprised by how busy it is in downtown Hamilton. Hamilton has a perception problem. I'm not saying the reality doesn't need improvements -- it does. But I certainly think the majority of people's beliefs are not in keeping with the current reality.
When people think of Toronto they think of the business sector, shopping, restaurants, theatre, arts, tourism (CN Tower, festivals, etc) and Skydome. You can drive into Toronto for any of those attractions and not see social problems. When people think of Hamilton they think of the steel mills, poverty, decrepit buildings, pollution, brown fields, etc. You can't drive to IWS and not see social problems. You can't drive to the West Harbour and not see social problems and no stadium is going to magically change that. You can disagree all you want but perception is reality and this reality means not many out-of-towners attend TiCat games and that has to change.
Safety concerns reguarding downtown are greatly exagerated. (usually by folks with vested interrest elswhere.) I'm a 52 year old, and my wife and I work live and play downtown without incident. Sure I wish there was no poverty, but that comes with the times and corrupt politicians, ect...
I took the GO train into Toronto every week day for 5 years… on my walk up to Yonge and Adelaide I saw many a homeless person sleeping over ventilation shafts, unbelieveable numbers of people panhandling outside Union and the constant stink of urine in the station and the streets. Hamilton isn’t a Utopia but neither is Toronto. I can’t figure how someone driving in on the 403 to the West Harbour is going to see anything more disconcerting than they would see driving down Spadina.
Nope, totally agree Ockham. I can only counter that with my recent trips down to James N left me (and my better-half) mighty surprised. It’d been ages since either one of us had been in that area of the city and I don’t want to say we were shocked, but both of our impressions changed drastically. Since I’m a bit more interested in that sort of stuff, I was a bit more prepared, but she was thinking she was headed into the urban blight of 10 years ago. Completely not the case.
That said, I don’t think a trip through Gore Park would be outside of our expectations. That said (having lived close by a number of years ago), it’s not that bad. Definitely outside of many people’s comfort zones, and if you aren’t used to it, it can be intimidating, but by the numbers, not that bad.
Yup, I worked on Bay Street in T.O. The nations financial mecca – and the number of homeless people there, on the stretch from Union, would easily eclipse any and all you’d find in Hamilton. Many of them were pretty nice people, too, and I’d routinely chat with them on my way to work. The contrast of wealth there (from the towers to the street-level) was mighty sad.
It doesn't matter what anyone's personal experience is in the Hamilton downtown core. It's about non-Hamiltonian's perception of the downtown core. I"ve asked people I know who I sometimes manage to get to a TiCats game if they would rather go to the game in a new Aldershot or East Mountain stadium and everyone said yes. They love the product but are reluctant to drive through Hamilton. Give them highway access to a modern stadium and attendance will increase for TiCat games. Hamiltonians themselves are not supporting the team sufficiently so new people have to be attracted in order for the team to survive. That's the reality of this situation.
All of this will change when the first part of the Metrolinx plan for transit in Hamilton is implemented (substantially improved GO train service), and again when LRT is built. The plan for GO is to have 4 trains per hour (some from TH&B and some from a new GO station near LIUNA) during rush hour and 2 trains an hour the rest of the day, with a one-way travel time to Union Station under 1 hour. When this happens, thousands of households will move into the North End and east of downtown. Because for the same commute, they could buy the same house in Hamilton for hundreds of thousands of dollars cheaper than they could in Toronto. Then they can put $150K into it to make it into a palace and still be a couple hundred thousand ahead. Totally gutted and beautifully renovated 3-4 bedroom houses in the North End are currently selling in the low 200s. You can't even buy a bachelor apartment in a decent area of Toronto, that's accessible to downtown for that.