What’s a heck of a lot? Calgary had a longer period of sustained success than the Bombers, going 84-22 in the 6 seasons from 2013-2018. Finished 1st 5 times, 2nd once, won 2 GC’s & appeared in 4. The Bombers the last 3 seasons went 37-13, finished 1st twice, 3rd once, won 2 GC’s & appeared in 3. They’ve played 56 less games than those Calgary teams so to match that 79% winning % over the next 3 seasons & a bit, they would have to go 47-9. Ain’t gonna happen IMO. A better comparison might be the Montreal Alouettes who were the last team to win 2 in a row in 2009-10 & had a lot of key players close to retiring.
In that 6 year span, CGY was absolutley a dominant team. But they only won twice in that stretch.
You’ve often argued that anything other than winning a championship this year should be viewed as a failure for WPG. Can’t have it both ways when it suits your arguement.
WPG blew the chance to be the 1st team in forever to win 3 straight, but they still have a chance to do what few others have: make it to 4 straight finals and win 3.
Thank you for reinforcing my point. The comparison to Calgary wasn’t to compare records. Winnipeg hasn’t had had the sustained success to the levels Calgary did the comparison was to show that being successful doesn’t always translate into championship success. Calgary had over a decade of being a strong team. In that time period you refer to they went to the GC three times in a row and only came away with one championship. No matter how strong a team one has everyone can be beaten. This year there isn’t a team that’s a lock to win. The days of more than two cups in a row are gone. With many of the best players choosing to sign short contracts to maximize their short window of playing time it’s hard to imagine any team having the championship success like Edmonton had in the 70’s and 80’s Calgary was the closest to being able to have that and I don’t think they even won consecutive championships in their time. Heck, despite the Bombers having few changes I was under no illusion that they were going to be repeating the success they had last year. Toronto proved they had already caught up and BC was definitely a threat. All three teams aren’t as good as they were last year either. Toronto may be unbeaten so far but they are beatable.
I agree with you, except for the last bit. I think both BC & Tor are better this year defensively.
Well, Blue, my point back then was that it would be viewed that way by you Bomber faithful. In light of the fact that prior to pre-season the football ops chose to bring back every old veteran & lock them up for a yearor 2, that too is indicative of how the season was being viewed by Bomber staff AND players alike. In fact guys like Bighill on this site said as much - did they have one last hurrah before the gang breaks up? What did they label this season - “Redemption” or something like that?
I don’t put much stock @ 2 in a row. Sure, not done that often but this year the Argos have a chance to win 2 in a row. And, if not, & say BC wins, then in 2024 they have a chance to win 2. Pretty low bar iMO for comments I have read in this corner in the past about what in today’s world is considered “dynasty” worthy. Every winner then is a “dynasty” in waiting.
LOL, only you could say that you don’t put much stock in winning 2 straight Cups.
It is a feat that only happens once a decade, and something those Stamps teams could never accomplish.
3 staight appearances is also a major accomplishment and only Calgary & Montreal have been able to do that.
So even if WPG lost every game remaining this year, they have already cemented themselves as one of the best groups in recent history. I’ll leave the arguement as to what qualifies as a “Dynasty” up to others, but if they can make it to another final, making it 4 in a row, that puts them in very rare territory. But like you said: BC, Tor and any possible Cinderella team will try their best to stop them from doing that.
Although there is certainly no definition of dynasty that is completely definitive I disagree that the current Bombers are not a dynasty. That stands even if they lose all of their remaining games this year.
I am not sure you appreciate and have taken into account the difficulty of keeping the band together in today’s sports climate. There is a salary cap. A coaches cap. There is free agency. We are not on par with the NFL perception wise or salary wise as we were into the 70’s or early 80’s. There is now competition from not only one but two spring leagues that look like they are not going anywhere soon.
This is night and day from the era in which Edmonton won 5 in a row, which almost certainly won’t happen again. In fact had the Bombers won their 3rd in a row last year I would have put them on par with the 5 in a row that Edmonton won. If there was no salary cap in place today the CFL version of the NY Yankees could outspend every other team but no one including myself would like to see that. It takes the skill out of building a team and in the long run is bad for the league.
Focussing on this century, which is the time most relevant when we are talking about salary caps, the only teams in North American sports I would qualify as a dynasty are the Patriots, Black Hawks (with Tampa on the doorstep), Lakers and Warriors. That’s not very many. Particularly impressive are the Patriots.
The reason I say that is because football is by far the hardest of the 4 major sports to achieve a dynasty in. That is simply because as we all know, any team can lose any one game. Does anyone really think that the Bombers would have lost a best of seven series to the Argos for the Cup last year? But that’s not how it works in football. It’s one and done. Football also relies on one player more than any other team sport. If your starting QB goes down for the year most of the time you are done- see Bombers Grey Cup loss to Saskatchewan. Even the mighty Patriots could do Jack squat the year Brady was out. The Bombers also managed to keep together most of their team through a pandemic year, a testament to their superb management and culture which all dynasties possess.
Conversely in hockey, basketball or baseball you play mostly best of seven except for the early baseball matchups. Having a bad game or two or three isn’t necessarily fatal to your dynasty. Basketball is a bit of an outlier in my opinion. On the one hand it is much easier than the other three sports to win as it really only takes two outstanding players and one good supporting player. On the flip side if one of your stars is injured it can have a devastating effect on your chances. More than in any other team sport except for a QB injury.
Having said all that it is very clear to me that the current Bombers are a dynasty. If they win another Cup this year in light of the modern day challenges previous dynasties didn’t have to face, they will be in the conversation for greatest team ever. If they don’t they won’t be but they would still be a dynasty in my opinion, just a lesser one. Some galaxies are bigger than others.
Another tell tale sign of a dynasty is at least one historically magnificent team. The Bombers checked that box two years with the best defence the CFL had seen in some 50 years which for many of us such as myself is as long as I have watched the CFL. Opponents couldn’t score more than 1-3 points in the 4th quarter if they scored at all, even if they kidnapped both your baby and the Lindbergh baby and wouldn’t return them unless the Bombers gave them a TD. That is of course an impossibly high level to maintain and also requires some luck. That is why when the Bombers start receding from that peak which they have been doing for two years it is surprising to some even though it is logically inevitable.
Yes you do have it right in that the Bombers aren’t as good as they were two years ago and will never be again with their current crew. Yes age is a factor. I believe injuries, especially to their defence last year and this year are a bigger factor. Because they were so all timey good a couple of years ago and close to that last year of course it is a shock whenever they lose but I have news for you , they will lose more games as will every other team, perhaps even another one or two badly. I don’t think there is any basis upon which to write off their chances this year nor is there any basis to pencil them in as the winner of the Cup. They still have the best QB and group of receivers and except for last week have one of the very best running games that can drain 9 minutes of game time in the 4th quarter to put an opponent to bed. I think that their defence, again decimated by injuries, is nowhere near as good as two years ago but their offense is better and even if their defence sags the question will be whether any other defence in the league will be able to stop the Bomber offense consistently when it counts. I don’t know the answer right now only 1/3 of the way into the season.
Again, I’m making no predictions for this year but will reiterate my opinion that you have witnessed/are witnessing a dynasty in a modern salary cap era even if that dynasty is almost over.
Great post Jon.
It’s a shame he spends so much time trying to discredit what has been done, instead of just enjoying it for what it is.
Lots left to be written in this book though, next chapter starts in a few hours!
Quelle surprise - you disagree. 2 in a row is available to any winner. Real tough. And in case you haven’t noticed, outside of the Bombers, most of the teams have been signing players to multi-year contracts. Are we still speaking of the 2010 Als as a dynasty. Well they did have 9 1st place finishes in 12 years culminating in 2 straight GC’s. Bombers have had a short run of success. But 2 GC’s is a row a dynasty. Give your head a shake.
Try to stay calm Pants, no need to go off on a vet poster like that.
Available is very different than accomplishing. That is Jon’s point.
Is 3 straight years in the final available to any champ? Is that feat not something special?
The Als are certainly the closest team this century but they still had it easier than the Bombers or any team today. No meaningful spring leagues with staying power and financial clout stealing players and no coaches cap. It’s harder than ever now.
Of course a team that won 7 straight Western Finals & 5 Grey Cups is not better than the Bombers. How is it we can’t all agree on that? There’s no comparison. Stop demeaning accomplishments of other teams to laud your team. And Jon, having a great QB counts but Zach Collaros is no Warren Moon. No offence to Zach.
Fact is, nobody talks about the Als as a dynasty despite the 2 in a row & a decade more of dominance before than the Bombers. How about the 2 in a row Argos? Still hearing about them?
The CFL is a 9 team league, not 32 like the NFL. There is no extended series of sudden death games - just 2 if you finish 1st - one win @ home & you’re in. That’s REALLY tough sledding, especially having a bye before the final. We’re not talking March Madness here or World Cup. If you can’t win 2 to complete a threepeat, the less said the better.
Everybody knows the rules. Those vastly superior Bombers only had to beat, your words Jon, an unworthy club to become a dynasty. The team knew exactly what the game entailed. They blew it. AND they know it. Great teams finish the job - the Bombers didn’t. All your talk isn’t going to change that. Great regular season team, sure. Dynasty? Nope. End of…
If the Bombers are as lousy as you say I would hate to read your take on the other 8 teams over the last 4 years. I guess the CFL just had no good teams while the Bombers were winning since 2019 unlike teams like the Stamps and Alouettes.
You do realize the Bombers finished 3rd in 2019 and ran the road gauntlet to win the Grey Cup handily that year. When was the last time a team did that? They earned that Cup more than any in recent memory. Their dynasty had begun. We just didn’t know it yet. The Bombers also earned the right to host a play in game the last two years unlike the Argos. They are the team you should be attacking for having an easy and unearned road to the Cup in the CFL’s unique longitude based playoff system.
I get your point though. Bombers bad. Any other team past or present good. Not a strong argument in my opinion. As another Bomber fan likes to say, they are living rent free in your head. Do tell us which team you favour and then tell us how much better they are than the Bombers.
I get it. The Bombers dynasty must be irritating to non Bomber fans. So would their dynasty under Bud Grant be. So would the dynasty by Edmonton to non fans of that team. Not many other dynasties to be jealous about however. Being a season ticket holder for almost the entire 29 years the Bombers didn’t win the Cup wasn’t always fun but I didn’t constantly run down other teams and organizations during that time or ignore reality. I’m interested to know who your team is that is no doubt better than the Bombers or at least about to be given their imminent and impending failure.