Post-season a write-off with this Offence/Special teams

...I know...i know it was a stupendous grab by Denmark on that Goltz toss....AND we have had other big plays this season...BUT that ain't going to get it done...I've lost count of the two and outs and the bogging down in the redzone....I'm sorry for this downer assessment but this offence is not good enough ...'Last in a lot of categories' for a first-place team is a very telling story...If it weren't for the D this club would be in the basement...Some will say look at the improvement from last year...And i say the only real improvement has only been on defence with a coach in Tim Burke being mostly responsible...The play calling on offence has been atrocious at times and sticking with this totally inept special teams coach is a heads-scratcher and holding this club back...The kicking game is deteriorating now as well ..leading to horrendous field position..We are losing on both ends...returning and kicking...We are spotting the opposition waaaaaay too much field advantage and it just keeps on getting worse...Until these things improve, i don't see us going anywhere post-season...The field of play starts to turn ugly and if we can't give our underachieving offence something to work with, we are done like dinner...Just my thoughts on the remaining six games ...Maybe it's too late to do anything more with the offence and special teams AND it will be the ol refrain...Wait till next year...I think i've about used up all of my patience and i hope something can be done to up the level of play....Mack better get on it :wink:

this offense just beat Montreal, which means it can do it again, which means the post-season isn't a write-off

however, if Pierce and Brink are seriously injured, then yes, it is

pierce was pre cautionary i think. u could tell his ribs were bothering him.

think he will be fine. brink? hard to say

reid tho may be done. good thing we got chris garrett around.

i thought the offense played ok, i mean second string qb and rb and third string qb and no rb... what do people expect?

....I'll agree beating the Als. in their own back-yard is a feather in our cap...BUT losing to two last place teams in the last four games is not doing much for me bowler...I hate to say this but i think the chickens have come home to roost and the glaring problems are starting to be noticed more readily...I'll be glad to retract all of this if the team can pull it together and pull off another win against the Als..but somehow i have doubts...We'll see :roll:

the glaring problem this game was bullshit penalties.

....yes ..i'll agree but reffing can be bad both ways and no excuse for losing ...This one got away on us because of injury as well BUT i don't recall our punter getting hurt or our return guys orrrr that stupid call in the endzone where we should have been prepared to kick the ball out....or the dumb call that would have possibly given us the winning points at the beginning of the game, where we should have attempted a field-goal instead of that huge 5 yard punt :thdn: These things have nothing to do with the refs :wink:

kick the ball out with 30 seconds left? why? so the argos can get the ball at our 30 and kick the fg again?

no they dont have nothing to do with refs but taking 7 points away from us and giving the argos 2 cracks at that fg sure did.

if we lost by 10.. ok but we lost by 1 and had 7 taken away from us.

...so your alternative would be to do what Jovon did and have no-chance at winning....You kick the bloody thing out and take your chances....otherwise there;s none....And who's to say Prefontaine would make one if you kicked it out to the forty....he missed from closer than that :wink: Grant would have had his punter back there and would've returned that missed field goal ..It worked for him a few times on the way to a few Cups :wink:

They should have had 2 or 3 players waiting for the ball in the endzone in case of a miss. Give you a blocker or 2 in case of a miss and therefore a chance to get the ball out and at the very least keep the score tied and send it to OT. This gimmicky kick it out is pointless and rarely ever works and Toronto could have had someone kick it back for the single anyway. The other option was that if there was a miss and Jovo looks up and there are no clear holes, down the single right away and preserve those extra 10 seconds or whatever was used up and give it to your offense. That could've been an extra 2 plays at the end of the game and given you a chance to at least get a rouge of your own. The team wasn't prepared at the end of the game for what they needed to do.

The Bombers are a talented team but are also not very talented in certain areas---

Since the retirement of ALBERT JOHNSON the 3rd has Winnipeg ever had a return guy that can do anything? Javon Johnson is the worst returner in the CFL easily. He is really slow. I am sure Winnipeg could have open tryouts and find a better return guy than what they have-- Ask BC they seem to find new return guys every single season--

Mike Renaud- Never been a big fan of this guy, but when you are a PRO that attempt at pinning the ARGOS deep near the goal line was a complete joke. He didnt even make it to the 20's. he looked like he had never ever practiced that before--
Pinning teams deep is crucial in football, look at rugby and how teams keep kicking for field position--

On both ends if the field position was better, I am sure the Bombers would have 2 more wins easily per year.

The sad thing is the Bombers won most of their games vs weaker teams early on in the season, now they are losing to those same teams, SASK twice and the Argos--

Why are they not running the PITCH PLAY to FRED REID?

How about getting TERRENCE EDWARDS MORE targets? Every time they throw it to Terrence he makes spectacular plays, the percentages are good when you throw to this guy---

TJ HARRIS needs to come back in the lineup--

I used to think Lapolice was a good offensive mind, but whoever is calling these plays, is completely wrong- You cannot throw so many 5 yard passes. That means long long drives which put your QB at more risk, too many throws---

Because they have only a 5 yard pass pattern called, if the DEFENSE takes it away BUCK is left standing there to take HELLACIOUS HITS-- I mean what Grey CuP team is winning with 5 yard passes?

The Bombers are on the way down offensively, I think with this team BUCK should be benched and BRINK should become the starter-- BUCK cannot do it with a suspect O LINE- He is already the panicking type of QB, with a suspect O line you need a bigger stronger faster QB like BRINK who can stretch the field--

People want to talk about BUCK this and BUCK that, but the bottom line is that BUCK has won nothing in the CFL- We are fooling ourselves if we believe the Bombers can win a grey cup with BUCK as the defense is not good enough to win the title as the special teams are horrible, punting sucks, and field goal kicking is unknown also--

The only positive is that with the BOMBERS defense and TALENT on offense they are good enough to WIN 1 game vs a good team-- However that may mean a playoff WIN but wont translate into MULTIPLE playoff wins and a grey cup--

I'm just saying anything can happen. This game was too weird to read anything into anyway and the LDC games are too easy for bad teams to get fired up for.

Gridiron Guru - you've got a pretty remarkable string of points being totally inaccurate going here. Jovon isn't even returning any more in most cases, but he has to with Brown injured, who by the way, hasn't done any better even though he's super hyped. AJIII was pretty bad his second time around too. Mike Renaud had the best punting average and IIRC the best net punting average in the CFL last year too. He's 4th in net punting this year. They're not running the pitch play to Reid because every time they try it it's the same old two yards and a cloud of dust. Watch and see, don't just complain because you want to. You said the offense sucked with Carr out when they had a big game to beat Montreal and considering the injuries in this game moved the ball VERY well. Brink should be starting over Pierce? You have to be kidding me. lol and then you say Buck has won nothing in the CFL.. Buck has one of the highest career winning percentages in CFL history.. but to use that to say he should be benched for Brink? Oh yeah, he's won way more.

wolverine29 has the end-of-game scenario right. kicking it out would've been stupider than conceding, it would be conceding a single (because if they try a 10-15 yard field goal, it's gonna be a single even if he makes it) with a chance to give them 3 or even 7.

lapo on the post game show said there was a guy who was supposed to be back there with jovon but the 5 argo guys who for some reason got by our wall of players ran him over.

our special teams blocking sucks.. jovon was a sitting duck and regardless of how many guys you put back there, if our front line cant stop the guys from running them over the same scenario would have happened again and again.

if anything, u dont kick the ball out with 30 seconds on the clock... u try and run it out and if that option isnt there.. jovon should have noticed it and went down right away to save 5 or 6 valuable seconds.

question tho.. what if jovon ran the ball out a bit and then "fumbled" out of bounds at the 1 or 2 yard line.. i mean, a simple fake fumble where he "throws" it out of bounds would have been smarter than kicking it back to the argos.. we kick it back... they get it at the 30 with probably a 15 yard no yards penalty so make it the 15.. kneel the ball once... let the clock run down to 5 seconds, line up for 2nd down, throw it away to stop the clock and kick a single to win anyways..

stupidest thing they could have done was punt it out of the endzone..atleast this way they had a chance.. goltz should have thrown that one away at the end and who knows, maybe RENAUD comes in and kicks a punt single to tie the game. doubtful but..

all things considered.. playing with the 3rd string qb after qb 1 and 2 and rb 1 and 2 go down and u lose by 1 to a team who did nothing all second half.. i dunno.

how come noone blames edwards for fumbling the ball leading to an argo td? why is it on jovon or lapolice when edwards coughed up another one?

refs didnt help.. definately not and anyone who disagrees that the reffing didnt suck didnt watch the game...hell if that was the argos vs ticats and that happened to the ticats id still think it was the wrong calll (the fumble in the endzone on the punt).. but really.. we lost by 1 to a team who's qb threw for 88 yards and 3 interceptions and had a mulligan on a field goal that was missed twice.

reality is.. that fg single shouldnt have even happened.. the hometown fans blow a whistle and the argos continue to play and he misses the kick but gets to try again? is this golf with your friends now where if some tool screams out fore when your about to tee off, u give yourself a mulligan?

people can say all they want but.. 2 plays changed that game and both.. well, both went the argos way..

ofcourse, the endzone fumble and then the mulligan on the kick..

later this week, higgins will appologize to us saying ok that should have been a bomber touchdown and no the kicker shouldnt have had a mullligan on that kick.. he appologized to us 3 x last year.. 2 x proulx reffed those games.. proulx gets the heat but its his crew that made the mistake on that one.. the ref like thhe farthest from the play threw that flag.. ofcourse right because yup lapo cant challenge penalties like that.. if it was no yards.. he could have and yup bombers would have won but ofcourse, its the argos and everything is toronto this, toronto that.. they even got their own little tv show.

bomber player hurt.. they show barker on the sidelines crying to the refs..

dont care what any troll ticat fan or idiot rider fan says.. bombers were screwed and if that happened to any other team id say the same thing.. however.. this is now a trend as its happened b4 with this crew and the bombers..

simple solution... proulx and his crew shouldnt be allowed to ref bomber games anymore..

u gotta wonder if that was glenn johnson or murray clarke if that same call would have been made.. i'm not so sure it would have been and that says all you really need to know.

i cant say for sure that glenn johnson or murray clarke would have made the same call on that play.. i'm not sure any of us can say for sure they would have.. i think it's likely that proulx's crew, based on previous history with the bombers... is the only crew that would have made that call.

u want TJ haris back in? why? didnt we fumble enough without him?

the panic in here and on other bomber sites after a loss is ridiculous especially considering the circumstances.

pierce = pulled because of ribs
reid = out with knee
brink = shoulder
volny = knee
goltz = rookie who gets zero reps all week.
rb = nobody cuz both our guys got hurt

we lost by 1 with no rb and our 2nd string and 3rd string qb's playing most the game.

last week a healthy team beat the als in montreal. some perspective..

if pierce wasnt banged up and if both our rb's didnt get hurt.. heck if brink didnt get hurt.. we probably would have won.

i mean, what team in the cfl with their 3rd stringer and zero running backs would have won? none of em. we lost by 1 with some very iffy calls against us.

perspective.

Can't kick the ball out,Tor would have gotten the ball around our 25 ,tack on the no yards penalty and it was game over anyway! Not sure why there was no play set up in the endzone to return it! Our special teams is a joke and Renaud is it at the top of the list! If he some how manages to kick one over 40 yards ,it's a screaming line drive that gives our tacklers no time to get down field! Palardy is kicking to well to get him mixed up in punting! I'm sure there are some very capable NFL cuts that would work out! Renaud will single handidly kill us in a playoff game.

....you certainly do return kick that missed field goal because that's the only real option you have...How much time was on the clock....20 seconds....IF you had someone thinking on the bench you would have had our blockers delay the downfield opposition...I know that's been done because tds have been scored a lot of times off of missed field goals...Delay the kick out of the end zone to eat the clock....Even if you shank-it it's out ...no point...and the clock runs out... Sure they can return the punt by kicking it back....you kick it back again.. but that also runs the clock....I've seen it happen in the past and done successfully with more time on the clock...AND IF we are getting into speculating they get another shot at a field goal...what's wrong with the supposition, that we put the block on that attempt and are successful...The argos were having problems toward the end of the game kicking 30 yarders...not once but twice..But besides that...to NOT EVEN TRY and give yourself a 'chance' is unforgivable in sports...You have literally laid down...which Jovon did...end of game :thdn: ...No this is coaching and our poor preparedness catching-up...It has to change :thdn:

They ended up with only 20 seconds because Jovo kept running back and forth trying to find a lane to get it out. The kick out was not going to happen 1. I disagree on whether this option would've worked considering there were still 40 seconds on the clock to kill to maintain the tie, too much IMO, 2. if you keep giving Pre a shot to make it eventually he'll hit it and 3. if you did want to do it you don't put jovo back there but palardy and reynaud, so you're not even set up for a kick out. That leaves 3 options - 1. Pre makes the kick, argos up by 3, 2. Pre misses and you have Jovo run it out, or 3. Jovo concedes immediately, you maximize the clock you have left for your offence to try get into FG range. What happened was Pre misses, Jovo runs around, and the offence lost 10 seconds, likely 2 plays worth, to work with at the end of the game. The set up on the field wasn't ready in case of a miss, no one seemed to know what they needed to do except Jovo desperately trying to get out of the endzone surrounded by a mass of Argos jerseys and not a bomber in site. Regardless, if you wanted a kick out or Jovo to give up the single right away or run it out, they weren't prepared for either scenario. Comes down to coaching. Special teams continues to be a weak point. The bombers put in a great effort considering all the injuries - top 2 QBs, top 2 RBs, a starting guard, a starting DT. Offense played well enough with the 3rd string QB to keep the team in the game. Defense kept TO off the score sheet in the 4th quarter, TO only had a safety and that single. They survived that bizarre fumbled kick return with all the penalties assigned to them. The difference was that they gave up a couple good returns to Owens in the 4th when he caught the ball and weren't ready on the FG. That's on the special teams coach and head coach IMO.

It took 3 crazy calls to go against the Bombers, playing with no RB and Goltz, for them to lose this game. I'd say that won't happen most nights so I'm not too worried at this point.

ok we complain about the loose ball foul and losing out on 7pts but why was Toronto awarded the ball with a touchback when owens touched it in the field of play it should have still resulted in a safety with T.O. kicking off right? or even a rouge awarded to us therefore resulting in either game still tied us or us winning by 1 or us winning by 7.

That's why that penalty was so big, because the Bombers got nothing out of it, not even a safety, the penalty nullify's all that and the Argos got it at the 35 (think there was also a second 10 yard objectional conduct penalty against the Bombers added on too boot). Proulx gave it to then hard on that one.

i thought ruling on a loose ball foul was just other team was awarded posession. so therfore basically ruling owens recovered the ball and than go on from there and since was in the endzone awarded touchback (rouge missed) and ball spotted on 25 like a normal touchback would be than slap on unsportsmanlike and 35 yardline scrimage.