Policing and Change

Interesting to see Surrey BC totally revamp their policing model .
They will not renew RCMP instead have created their own force which will be in place next year.
Less Police but more boots on the ground
More non police staff to help in less severe areas
29% more policing involving schools and gangland activity.
Will cost 10% more
Civilian oversight board.
So it can be done.

Executive summary:

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From a local perspective, what is the state of the situation with drug trafficking there?

Is it domestic by and large by Canadians, or are foreign syndicates doing the distribution too?

Let's exclude the illegal and better weed of course now that otherwise it is legal.

I ask so I can contrast and compare what I have seen in much of the US including in the Kensington area here in Philadelphia, which is the heroin capital of the northeastern US.

90% of our heroin and fetanyl has come from El Cartel for some time now last I have heard and read many times.

Huge drug trade. High end gangs ...lots of crime but very nice areas too. Basically a large city attached ultimately to Vancouver with high growth rate, one of the largest in Canada.

Do you think the locally-run force will be more effective against the organized crime elements given the implied failures of the RCMP?

Do they have ample resources, including the experienced people, and the high funding in BC and in the city?

Is the view towards Ottawa apathetic or worse in Surrey?

Thank you for this local perspective. It's very helpful to understand, contrast, and compare.

Who knows? But RCMP are transient moving in and out by design. Local cop force is meant to be local for a career and certainly will be more visible.
The important thing here is that policing can change with political will.

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See now, that is a major difference as compared to law enforcement in the US and coordination between local, state and federal resources especially since 9/11.

Such was often the opposite case mind you until the 1990s and 2000s respectively in New York City and in Las Vegas as two examples in the US with the locals at odds with the Feds.

Thank you again for the explanation.

I think Canadians are spending waaay too much time focusing their news intake on US. Here we have a major Canadian city actually starting fresh . I really wish them well.
Heck I find that many Canadians are using terms like we when ranting about your country with all due respect.

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Good luck attracting anyone to work there. A civilian board made up of BLM activists who want to jail any white officer who acts in self defense. I can't see that working out well


The present surrey mayor is a bit of a loon and a large percentage of people, both in surrey and out are against this. It will cost a lot more than a10% increase, not to mention incredible start up costs. Then there is the growing pains that high turnover of officers and senior staff that will result in. Other cities of course have successfully done this, but I am doubting they have done so with as large a population. For instance, Delta BC police was started in 1988 when the population of Delta was about 88,000. POP of surrey is over 600,000 and climbing rapidly.

a civilian board made up of BLM activists. Where did you get that from. I cant find it.

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Page 65. The officer has to prove his innocence to a community board which i assume would include members of BLM. I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole.

You assume. Right. Even your assumption changes from "made up of" to "would include"

I dont think this is going to be an issue. Too many other things.

p.s. I cant find that line anywhere in the document.

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Delta BC also has their own police force.

It comes from his deep file of racist and right-wing talking points he obviously has demonstrated at the ready since he popped up in the last few days after a few others broke the racist ice on another thread.

I forewarned you in a discussion we had, understanding then at hand, that was going to happen.

Here we are and there are probably a few more lurking or who will stop by later this week.

And he's off topic too of course.

...in the province next door, we have ASIRT (Alberta Serious Incident Response Team), an independent investigation service that steps in to review any law enforcement action where the use of firearms or tactics results in serious injury or death..the results of the investigation are made public ASAP...I’m sure BC would have something similar. So why would you need a community-based team for an officer to explain his/her actions to then? Perhaps part of Surrey’s plan I guess, to make it more grass-roots level maybe? Seems excessive, but I probably can’t see the whole story...

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Now compared to down here in the US where "local procedure" varies and then is altered after the fact, that's organized and impressive R&W!

My state of Pennsylvania has more police departments than any other - 167 at last count. There are also as many fire departments (not stations as are multiples more) and so forth by city, township and borough.

This number does not count sheriff's departments.

The City of Philadelphia has its police as well as the regional transit police, so that's only 2 of them so you get the idea.

The framework works for many functions of local government, but not having county police or Metro police like in other states and Metro areas makes it ridiculous in the aftermath with regards to handling and cooperation after serious crimes or in fighting organized crime.

Yep..Red and White..Well it will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
I find it interesting that a city can embark on this type of reform to try to get more local in their policing.
I wish them well. Hiring will be of utmost importance. I had the the pleasure of meeting Robert Lunney a legend in police management. He was at one time the Chief of Police in Edmonton amongst other areas. He was passionate about the need for policing reform.
He mentioned that it takes about 6 weeks for the freshest, intelligent young recruit to become a cynical wreck if placed with a "bad' cop'' during his first few months.

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I envy that you had such a conversation!

A good friend of mine with more than 20 years in law enforcement is likely to have a similar opinion.

Back in 2004 or so, in talking with him we were both wary of police wearing military green after receiving military weaponry everywhere not simply the tactical units going up against the roughest like El Cartel and the biggest gangs.

And here we are with far too many police with a tactical and adversarial position for too many a situation (i.e. firing away at a guy's back only because he "might" have a knife).

After the academy, recruits are with field training officers for quite awhile and they are the boss.

And no doubt the strongest impression is going to be made right there on a recruit when out of the academy for better or for worse.

The film "Training Day" had a plot that exaggerated this point as do some other cop films that address police corruption.

Ya..if you like reading I highly recommend :"The Force" a novel by Don Winslow.

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Good reading in french about this topic.