PGA Tour vs LIV Golf

Almost a year away but a brief article on next year’s President’s Cup matches, normally a better competition with a better field than the Ryder Cup. That won’t be the case next year but Mike Weir is the captain. For the first time he has six captain’s picks. Corey Conners is in as of today in the top six and Adam Hadwin is in the top 12 and might be the subject of a captain’s pick if made today.

Unfortunately no accomodation for LIV golfers, which I find mind boggling in light of their supposed settlement. That is why the matches will be weak with the international team especially being decimated. I also would much prefer to see the Canadians that might make it earn their spots or captain’s picks. Now we will never know how good the Canadian (s) that make the team are or whether they should have made it if they had competed against the best golfers available and we will never know how good a captain Mike Weir might have been. As a Canadian I find that to be a shame and an insult to our country. And all because the PGA Tour and certain player (s) can’t handle fair competition. Another opportunity like this for a Canadian coach and two or more Canadian players might not come along for decades.

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Looking forward to this
Held in Canada, captained by Mike Weir
and possibly the strongest Canadian golf contingent ever! :canada:

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Canada’s junior programs are pumping out a lot of good young golfers. When I was volunteering for Alberta Golf I saw a lot of them.
Seems like every year we have another guy show up and show well on tour.

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I had mentioned the team “golf league” being put together by Rory and Tiger some time ago. It starts in January and more details have just come out:

Have a read. It’s actually pretty funny. This appears to have been conceived as a response to LIV some 18 months ago. It is a full gimmicky league that will be played out of a Miami hub with teams representing cities much like the much criticized USFL. It also won’t actually be played on real courses but on a golf simulator. Oh boy, I can’t wait. No word as to whether the traditional windmill and clown’s mouth will be incorporated somehow.

Although Rory has every right to form such a league, the hypocrisy here is over the top and hopefully even the doubters can see that now. Rory criticized LIV for being non traditional yet his new league makes LIV look like all four majors combined. Truly shameless. And let’s not forget that Rory pocketed more Arab money than any other golfer ever before decrying the Saudi money funding LIV. I have zero respect for the guy.

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FWIW, other suitors for investment in the PGA Tour

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I don’t think many of us are following golf in what amounts to their off season. I think this week is the last official tournament of the year and it certainly doesn’t have a top field.

Nevertheless Mackenzie Hughes shot a 60 today and is two shots off the lead heading into tomorrow’s final round. He eagled 15 and birdied 16 and 17. He just missed his 15 foot birdie putt on 18 for the elusive 59. Way to go Mack and good luck tomorrow. :canada:

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I watched that
Hughes played very well
Too bad he missed that 59 putt!

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Mack Hughes played well on Sunday to easily finish second in the final tournament of the year. He might have won a lot of tournaments with his play but the winner Aberg played lights out and ran away with it.

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Some good news on the world golf front. Rory has resigned from the PGA Tour policy board, citing time constraints (bruised ego). Jordan Spieth will replace him.

Anti Arab Rory just won another “Race to Dubai” this past weekend.

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From decades ago when flipping channels, I remember this name. I’m not sure what this means to many of you seasoned and sometimes cantankerous golfers in here who either watch golf on Comcast / NBC channels or see the feed otherwise, but please have at it:

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Too bad. I thought he was the best of the current bunch. Ascerbic and critical like Johnny Miller was. Justin Leonard is too golly gee whiz pass the apple pie for me.

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A feel good story about Roger Sloan :canada: who as you can read just barely made it back to the big show this coming season. Don’t know much about him but do remember him from before.

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Tiger woods is correct here.

Certainly the announcement earlier this year of a deal between the PGA and Saudi Arabia’s Public Investment Fund (i.e., the Saudi government) caught almost all by surprise; however, I don’t think the fact that the deal was accomplished behind closed doors was a surprise at all. Or was it?

Is it plausible that Woods and other veterans of golf truly did not know that’s how the prime investors, the Saudis (or it could have been others all the same, much as it is in various other investments in sports in the West), roll with regards to business matters and then some?

“My reaction was surprised, just like I’m sure a lot of the players were taken aback,” said Woods, who is set to make his first PGA Tour start since undergoing ankle surgery in April at this week’s Hero World Challenge.

"So quickly without any input or any information about it, it was just thrown out there. I was very surprised that the process was what it was.

“We were very frustrated with what happened and we took steps going forward to ensure that we were not going to be left out of the process like we were. So part of that process was putting me on the board.”

https://www.reuters.com/sports/golf/woods-frustrated-that-players-were-left-out-pga-liv-merger-talks-2023-11-29/

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I saw a similar article yesterday. Tiger is in the news again because he is playing for the first time in 7 months at the silly season event this weekend. His and Rory’s poor imitation of LIV team golf hub computer screen league starts in January so he needs to promote it.

The real issue is whether LIV and the PGA will finalize their agreement by the December 31st deadline or whether the deadline will be extended if they do not. Tiger believes it will occur as do others. Here’s another article on that subject.

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Thanks. Oh well that article can’t be accessed in the US for some reason.

I agree they will either figure something out by the end of the year and if more time will be needed, they will simply extend and get it done in early 2024. The stakes are simply far too high in favour of all parties.

I don’t think anybody is seeing a derailment here.

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Try the article now Paolo. I think I fixed it by linking ESPN directly.

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An update on what the commish thinks about negotiations with LIV and the upcoming deadline. We’ll know in a month. Apparently Fenway sports, owners of the Red Sox, Penguins and Liverpool, will also be an investor. They are trying to make it look cleaner to regulators after (accurate) allegations of monopoly.

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Well these proposed changes are a few years off, so there is still much time.

Of course certain clubs and balls have been banned for years from tournament play, but I’m not liking what this sounds like.

In motorsport, analogous changes to limit speed took place in the early 1990s beyond the safety considerations in what was then IndyCar before the schism between CART and USAC and the formation of the blasted IRL. For many, that sport has not been the same ever since that time.

https://www.reuters.com/sports/golf/ra-usga-unveil-universal-golf-ball-rollback-rule-starting-2028-2023-12-06/

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Thanks for posting this. I hadn’t kept up with this recently. It is somewhat surprising. As stated in the article the governing bodies of golf have batted this idea around for years and made it part of their proposed rule changes to golf last March.

This is the first time however that they have indicated that stifling ball flight would be a universal rule applying to all golfers, although it only kicks in for us in 2030. 2028 for the pros. Ball flight will be limited to 317 yards. Make sure you stock up on balls in 2029! :grin:

I think it is a big mistake to makes the rule apply to amateurs, most of whom can’t drive the ball anywhere near 300 yards. Golf is hard enough as it is.

As to the pros, there are pros and cons and good arguments for both sides. In support of the change, as the article states, many great old courses are obsolete and can’t be used for the Tours or the majors because they are too short and they don’t have the land and/or ability to expand like many others such as Augusta have done. Watching pros routinely drive it 350 yards to wedge distance on par 4’s (and even par 5’s) and shooting -25 over 4 rounds isn’t exciting to some and also arguably is against the spirit of golf. There are many complaints about golf no longer being a strategic game and that players no longer have to be creative and do things like shape shots. Just Bryson it up and pound it as far as you can and sort it out from there. You may be in the rough but you are hitting wedge to the green while your opponent is hitting a 5 iron. A huge and usually insurmountable advantage.

This is a big deal and may be the biggest rule change in the history of golf. That is because the most important shot in golf is the tee shot. There has rarely been a more incorrect adage than “drive for show and putt for dough”. It should be the other way around. Even stats like greens in regulation and proximity of approach have a greater correlation to score than putting. Almost all of the best golfers historically were the best drivers of the day and that is still true today. Arnie, Jack, Norman, Tiger, were all among the best drivers of the ball. In fact putting was considered to be the weakest part of Arnie’s, Jack’s and Norman’s game. Today we have Rory, Rahm, Scheffler, Cantlay, DJ, Koepka, Bryson, Justin Thomas and many others who just pound the ball well past their opponents. John Daly won 2 majors only because he could drive it past anyone in his day and was hitting 4 clubs less into many greens.

There are tons of small guys today that pound it as well. They have been trained for distance since they were kids as they and their coaches know that is the most important part of golf and that you can’t be a great player if you bunt it or are too wild off the tee.

Short hitters but great putters of the past were Pavin (1 major), Zach Johnson (2), Brad Faxon (0), Kite (1), Weir (1), Crenshaw (2), Justin Leonard (1) and one of the best putters ever along with Crenshaw, Loren Roberts, who also had one of the best nicknames ever, the “Boss of the Moss”. Alas zero majors for him as well. The only current short hitter possibly still considered among the best in the game is Jordan Speith. And no one would argue that he won because of his putting which is not his strength. He burst on the scene with 4 majors in a short time span in the 2010’s but after he stopped hitting fairways off the tee he won no more. Fifty yards behind and in the rough or worse won’t get it done and your putter can’t save you from that.

Again, thjs rule change is a big deal and will allow many players to compete more closely with the big dogs.

Oh yeah. Arguments against. Many think this rule unfairly penalizes the better players. To me I think it would be similar to limiting the force with which a football or hockey player can hit an opponent or shoot the puck. It appears that this will also remove those exciting risk/reward par 4’s as most won’t be reachable if the ball can travel only 317 yards, rendering them obsolete and eliminating what has become an exciting part of the game, especially in match play.

Although the article doesn’t I should also mention that these rule changes aren’t a fait accompli. There are arguments to be made that such a rule is in restraint of trade. What if Company X comes up with a better golf ball based on some new proprietary engineering or manufacturing process? Who are the USGA and R & A to tell them they can’t sell it or that the average person can’t buy it and use it? Huge damages possible. Now I think it would be harder to make that case for the pros, but certainly that case could be made for the masses. One or more manufacturers could sue and I could even foresee a class action lawsuit on behalf of the masses. It wouldn’t surprise me if the rule is changed at some point so that amateurs are no longer included. That was always the stated intention. Looks like a bait and switch to me.

Stay tuned. For the reasons stated and I am sure several others I wouldn’t be surprised if this rule remained controversial right up to implementation.

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Some are concerned about world ranking points . LIV plays 3 round tournaments while the rest of professional golf plays 4 round tournaments . A simple solution for LIV is obvious and stop whining . The Saudis feel they can buy everything . Stand strong PGA .