Am I the only person on here that doesn't think Manning is as good as his Resume makes him look? Maybe i just don't see his greatness because they are always over shadowed by the patriots but still....?
Over-shadowed by the Patriots? Seriously... Manning is the only QB to have 6 consecutive seasons with 4,000 or more passing yards, and 9 total seasons with 4,000 or more passing yards. He has the second longest starting streak. He and Brett Favre are the only two players to win the MVP award 3 times. Peyton set four records in his rookie year for most passing attempts, most completions, most passing yards, and most passing TDs. He holds the record for the highest QB rating in a season at 121.1, and he has the second highest career QB rating at 94.7. He's in third place for most games throwing 4 or more TDs in a career (17), he's tied with Marino for first for most games throwing 4 or more TDs in a season (6), and he holds the record for most consecutive games throwing 4 or more TDs (5). I could go on and on. The Stats don't lie. Peyton Manning is the best QB in the league right now, bar none, and possibly the best to play the game.
Plus, the Colts have won a Super Bowl, 5 consecutive division titles, and they're the only team in NFL history to win 12 or more games in 6 consecutive seasons.
Peyton should win it every year. He is as close to a "one man team" as you will ever see. The Colts would be ruined if Peyton ever went down. Having said that, watching him play the game is down right amazing when you consider the fact that EVERYONE knows they can't run the ball and will pass the majority of the time.
I don't know if I would they have been overshadowed by the Pats but at the end of the day it is Championships that matter and the Patriots won 3 in 4 years and that is where Manning has came up short everytime except for once and that might be what is overshadowing Peyton. Also the (near) perfect season last year and a "Bradyless" team that won 11 games with other key injuries was spectacular as well especially when everyone wrote them off after Tom went down. There is no denying all the records Manning has set and that he is a lock for the hall of fame howver I bet he would trade those records for rings. In that sense the Patriots have stolen the spotlight away from Peyton a bit but I'm sure he doesn't care too much about that.
Stats can lie, Chief...Rings don't, and Brady has three of them.
Nothing is overshadowing Peyton. First it was "Peyton can't win the big game." Then he went and led the Colts to a huge comeback win over the Patriots in the AFC Championship game, and then won the Super Bowl. Now it's "He doesn't have as many rings." Blah, blah, blah. The man has a championship ring and three MVP awards. He's not being overshadowed by anyone or any team.
You know what the Patriots' perfect season will be remembered for? It won't be about them going 16-0 in the regular season. It'll be about them crashing and burning in the Super Bowl. I don't think Peyton has to worry about that overshadowing him... :roll:
The Patriots had their little dynasty at the start of the decade, but in a little while it'll be a distant memory, but what Peyton has done will be remembered forever.
First of all He's beaten the Patriots once in the playoffs, just once.....and most of the time he's played like crap against them. I'd put him in the same boat as AC up in the CFL, great QB during the regular season but has consistancy issues in the playoffs. Now don't get me wrong but i'll somewhat agree with your statement that he's one of the best Qb's in the league but if and when it came down to a 4th quarter last minute drive i'd still want Tom Brady back their over Manning.
Second of all i 100% agree with your second point that the Pat's season will be remembered becasue of the superbowl lose.
Thirdly....you honestly think that people will forget about the patriots dynasty and remember Peyton's accomplishments? I'm sorry but i don't care how good a player is no one is bigger than the team and people will always remember Dynasty teams over personal achievements.
The Colts under Peyton are 1-2 against the Patriots in the playoffs. I'd hardly call the series one-sided. And in our last 6 meetings in the regular season, we're 3-3.
As for thinking Brady is more clutch than Manning, here are a couple blurbs from Wiki and Yahoo:
For the third week in a row, Manning used the 4th quarter to bring the Colts back from a 27-10 deficit in the last 5 minutes against the Houston Texans to a 31-27 victory. It was the first time a NFL team had won a game in regulation after trailing by 17 points in the last 5 minutes. Manning threw a 7 yard TD pass on 4th & 6 to rookie tight end Tom Santi to make the deficit 27-17. Houston QB Sage Rosenfels, starting for the injured Matt Schaub, then fumbled the ball on a scramble, and it was returned 68 yards for a TD by Gary Brackett. After another Rosenfels fumble, Manning threw the 5-yard game-winning TD pass to Reggie Wayne. The Colts scored 3 TDs in 2:10. The game-winning drive was the 32nd of Manning's career, moving him past Johnny Unitas for most in club history.
Six times this season the Colts have trailed in the fourth quarter before coming back to win. Four of those comebacks took place during the current streak. Making that more impressive is that those defenses were bracing for Manning to pass, knowing Indianapolis couldn't run.
When it comes to the other NFL dynasties, the Patriots don't even deserve to be mentioned... When Manning retires, there's a good chance he'll hold most, if not all of the passing records.
But then you did say in another topic that you just don't like Manning, so whatever... What you say can just be considered hater talk.
Nobody can deny how great of a qb Peyton is but records are made to be broken. However I think some of them he will hold for a VERY long time because you don't see the loyality from most qb's to one team like Peyton with the Colts. Obviously $$$ is the big factor and lets face it, money talks. Peyton will go down as one of the best, if not the best qb's to ever play the game, that is a fact.
Then again, Manning should be head and shoulders above Brady. 1st overall pick vs 199th overall. I love Peyton as much as the next guy but Brady has got it done when it matters MOST. Game winning drives in the final minute of the superbowl are far more impressive than a comeback against Houston that was aided by rosenfels giving up the game. I shouldnt say that, but the D deserves just as much if not more credit for that comeback. Also the fact that Brady had guys like Brown, Patten, Branch at reciever to win superbowls. Peyton has had Harrison and Wayne at his disposal. Peyton is great but you have to admit Brady has done more with less (when it matters most)
Again, records are made to be broken...
On a side note, I'm a big fan of both Manning and Brady.
Patriot dynasty? Sure they won 3 Super Bowls in 4 years but that would put the dynasty in the past. I believe that this year's 11 win season without their golden boy will show that it was a lot more than Brady. Anybody think the Colts would've had 11 wins this year without Manning had he elected for that additional surgery? I don't and that's with an experienced NFL back up in Sorgi while the Pats are at 11 wins with a former high school starting QB that didn't start a game at USC.
I can not like a player but still respect his talent, hence the way i feel about Manning. He's a great player but i don't think he'll be remembered in the same light as Staubeck (sp), Starr, Bradshaw, Brady, Montana, etc. History probably prove me wrong but if we didn't have a difference of opinion to voice, it'd be a really long off-season. Qb's are more remembered for what they've done in playoffs and in the clutch more so than the regular season, with the exception of Dan Marino. This is the one issue i have with Manning is that his post season Accomplishments are on par with his regular season ones, hence he's not a clutch QB and wont be remember in as high of a light as some think.
But you had some stats that made manning standout in a positive way, i looked and found these ones...
Without their superbowl year he is 3-7 lifetime in the playoffs and is only .500 with the superbowl, all this will having the best record and offense in the league. I'm not questioning his regular season play just his ability in the big games. I don't think being able to do i once makes you a clutch player.
The link above is a hypothetical result to if Manning was the QB of the Patriots in the Playoffs. Pretty intresting to see that if he played the same way he did for the Colts, the Pats would have O superbowl wins. Manning (until recently) had way better players than Qb's like Brady and Rothlesiberger had during their wins, yet couldn't get it done except once. and the only reason i'm not sold by the one win is because players like trent dilfer, doug williams, Jim mcmahon, Mark Rypien and Jeff Hostetler have all won a superbowl and how many people remember any of them, with maybe the exception of Williams cuz he's the first african american to do it.
Although if Indy wins this year's superbowl or another one before Manning retires you have every right to rub it in, told me you told me so and i will have no issues posting a rebuttle to every negative post i've ever posted about manning. But until that happens i don't think he can be put in the upper echlon of QB's in the history of the game.
Did you miss the part where it said that was his 32nd game-winning drive? Did you miss the part where it said he'd brought his team back in the fourth quarter six times this season? As for having Harrison and Wayne... Harrison didn't become a top receiver until 1999, and we didn't get Wayne until 2001, and he really didn't start to shine unti 2004. But starting from 2001, when we had both, we're 7-5 in the playoffs with two AFC Championship appearances, and a Super Bowl win. And Manning is good even without Harrison. Last season he only played in 5 games, and yet Manning still led the Colts to 13 wins. And again this season, Harrison has had a significantly reduced role, and yet Manning took the team on his back and led them to 9 straight wins to make the playoffs.
That's like saying Brady is only 5-3 in the playoffs. That's just dumb. Maning won the Super Bowl, so he's 7-7, not 3-7. If that doesn't make him clutch, then what about him leading his team back in the fourth quarter to win six times this season? What about leading to Colts to 6 consecutive seasons with 12 or more wins, a NFL record? But regular season games mean nothing... even if he has led the Colts to 7 straight playoff berths...
IMO your right the regular season does mean jack sqwat. Dan Marino is statistically the best QB ever and yet people consider Montana, Brady, Bradshaw, Starr, Stauback and Aikman better because they've all won one or more superbowls. Does peyton deserve to be in absolutely but am i willing to put him in the top 5 Qb's ever to play the game, not right now.
People only care about the playoffs and Manning hasn't had the same level of success as he has had in the regular season. Statistacally he may go done as one of the best QB's ever but as a clutch performer in the playoffs, he may not even be the best QB in his family let alone the history of the game.
Yes, stats are (even though I don't think you were implying that )....all of Peytons stats didnt help him convert a 3rd and 2 late in the 4th that would have basically sealed the game. Peyton rarely gets sacked but in a clutch moment, yet he of all people holds on to the ball. It is not like he didn't have time. We have all seen him throw into double coverage with amazing accuracy so coverage couldn't have been an issue.
No Chief, I didn't miss any of that but like I said all those stats mean NOTHING when you get into the playoffs. Ok, maybe not nothing but they don't mean a whole lot. Again, I won't deny all the great things Peyton has done but all those individual awards and records do not add up to championship success. Granted, the D didn't help but then again they rarely do (aside from their superbowl run)
Like it or not, qb's, well everyone, are MORE remembered for success in the post season. Even coaches, Marty Schottenheimer is a prime example. Tremeandous regular seasons but couldn't get it done in the playoffs. Still is a great coach, no doubt about it but there is always that little something that prevents him from being the best. Same goes for Peyton, he is up there no question but those hiccups in the playoffs do not help his cause.
Just so there is no confusion, I said ringS in my last post, not ring. Really, even Trent Dilfer has a ring...everyone has their moments (in the playoffs) but prove it more than once and then we can talk about being the best of all time.
His highest QB rating was 88... 88!!! It makes one wonder how many of those rings he won, and how many of them the defence won...
The Colts lost their last two playoff games because of the defence (and the Harrison fumble), not because of Peyton. He may have failed to convert a key third down once or twice, but it was the defence giving up third and long time after time. It was the defence that allowed Sproles to put up over 100 yards.
The best players pull their team out of the fire. Peyton always does it..in the regular season..there is the major difference. I don;t think you can give Peyton too much credit. The guy is the Colts offense.
The Colts D was bad but 17 points in 4 quarters hardly costs the team a game, especially with the kind of offense the Colts have.
Again with the stats. Maybe Bradshaw didn't light it up but he didn't lose the games either. I'm not saying Peyton lost the game either..
In big games, that can make all the difference. Yes the D was bad but Peyton had the opportunity to do what he is famous for and he came up short in a crucial time in a crucial game and it isn't the first time.