Cap'n:
I seem to re-call some strong concerns over that too from someone...can't quite remember though.
But it would seem to provide a compromise for both sides.
Either that or bulldoze the Spec building and put it there!
That would be great for Dundurn and Locke streets, for sure. That too would be a great gameday experience.
You know, that article does make a lot of sense, assuming the Pan-Am committee is willing to move soccer to Hamilton. I mean Bob was also considering bringing a USL franchise here as well (I’m not sure if that is still in the cards though) and if it lowers the maintenance/construction costs, I’d have no problem with it.
It would offer economic spinoff for the core, and if the Velodrome was moved to McMaster (where it belongs in my opinion) that will free up a lot of additional room for parking. You would also have Inchbury, Locke, Crooks, Magil, Ray, Oxford, Queen, Hess and Bay St all offering direct parking access to the site (with a couple of left turn lanes along York of course).
I wouldn't rule out councillor Bratina's SJAM idea. Seems like the perfect comprimise if you ask me.I wouldn't be opposed to this site either, I mean it is closer to the vast amount of parking that is available in the core and still within walking distance of a James St GO stop. The only downside I see, is that it is on a small, triangular parcel of land which will make construction difficult, unless you somehow converted York or Cannon into a tunnel running under the stadium. Building over either York or Cannon would cause a downtown traffic nightmare. Still, John A. McDonald needs to be rebuilt and the Rheem area could then be the new home of the school, as the area does need something new there to clean it up.
I like the Idea but How going convince the Spec to move ?
Well, if the Spec is going to go the way of television here, stripped down version to something more simple. In that case they wouldn't need a big building, maybe move the remainder of the staff into the TiCats headquarters downtown. 
Ya know, some of this sounds like it’s in jest, but that really could be a pretty good idea. Now, the feasibility of dropping a building might not be there, but that’s a pretty good location. And the Spec could move downtown for sure. Not sure what kind of operations they need these days. But, I imagine the days of monster presses for newsprint might be over. Not sure though. They might like the billboard aspect of their location as well, though. Unless, of course, they bought the naming rights to the stadium. Hmmm.
They’d be a nice fit in the Lister Block or Hamilton Centre. Who knows, talking out of my derriere here.
I’m more and more liking the ‘compromise’ of the SJAM site. I think I’d totally be behind that site if it’s a possibility – and, ideally, it goes in conjunction with something done at Rheem (like the Mac/ Mohawk campus).
Would the SJAM site suit the parking needs?
Well, one thing it does is bring the stadium a little closer to the thousands of existing downtown parking spots.
Personally I like the SJAM site better than the west harbourfront in all liklihood if it was a choice between the two.
Would the triangular parcel at SJAM fit a stadium that didn’t have the track? The problem I see with using this site if you need to replace the school is cost and time frame. If money were no object maybe you could buy Scott Park SS from whoever owns it now, build a new up to date school on the playing field and then demo the old Scott Park school. You could also build the new board of education building there. Putting Mac/Mohawk at Rheem would save face for City council in an election year, they could easily say the benifit to downtown would be greater than if it were used as a stadium.
mountain, I admit I'm out of my league when you bring in all these other issues and maybe others here more knowledgeable about the city and the school and education setups can best answer this or comment on it.
Perkins' idea about switching sports venues, while interesting, does raise some questions:
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The track and field events are supposedly the flagship events of the Pan Am Games. Would all or part of the $56 Million in federal and provincial funding now earmarked for the Hamilton Pan Am stadium flow over to Varsity Stadium to become the flagship stadium for the Pan Am Games? How much federal and provincial funding would flow to Hamilton for a soccer stadium?
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If a sports venue switch occurred, would momentum build to convert Varsity Stadium into a 20,000 to 25,000 seat venue for potential use by the Argos?
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Varsity Stadium is currently scheduled to host some Pan Am soccer but BMO Field will host the premier Pan Am soccer games. How would MLSE react to a 25,000 football/soccer specific stadium being built in Hamilton? How would MLSE react to a possible conversion of Varsity Stadium into a 20,000 to 25,000 multi-use stadium? Would MLSE compete against Hamilton and Varsity Stadium for a share of the above-noted $56 Million to add a few thousand seats to BMO Field?
Given the idea was to use the Varsity Centre for its already built world class track, I don’t think a permanent expansion to 20,000 or 25,000 seats is in order. The only way Varsity Centre would accommodate 25,000 seats given the footprint they have to work with would be to remove the track and move the football field or lower the field below grade. The field only configuration was the case when the old 20,000 seat Varsity Stadium stood.
As it stands, the track at Varsity is directly adjacent to Devonshire Place. I’d imagine any temporary seating to make Varsity a 15,000 track venue would mean temporarily closing Devonshire to traffic and erecting temporary bleachers over the road to the west and parking lot to the south for the duration of the games.
3. Varsity Stadium is currently scheduled to host some Pan Am soccer but BMO Field will host the premier Pan Am soccer games. How would MLSE react to a 25,000 football/soccer specific stadium being built in Hamilton? How would MLSE react to a possible conversion of Varsity Stadium into a 20,000 to 25,000 multi-use stadium? Would MLSE compete against Hamilton and Varsity Stadium for a share of the above-noted $56 Million to add a few thousand seats to BMO Field?Interesting point. MLSE already got their handout with BMO Field which was to have been a public use, multi-use facility. With the recent installation of a natural surface, MLSE now has BMO for use exclusively for soccer. So much for concerts.
As much as I support infrastructure spending to go proportionally along the lines of population distribution, Toronto already has its fair share of sports venues.
I’m not so sure MLSE necessarily wants to expand BMO Field either. THey recently added 1500 or so seats in the north endzone and this year its been evident that TFC tickets aren’t as in demand as they were in their opening 3 years. Its quite easy to score tickets below face value outside the stadium and their announced attendance this year has been far more than the actual bums in the seats.
I’d prefer Hamilton to get the football / soccer stadium over the track stadium for legacy use by the Tiger-Cats.
The savings from not having to convert from a track stadium might go a long way in resolving whichever revenue sharing issues the Cats and City are having over the Deloitte report.
It's not a Toronto thing, but there is no doubt how the City of Hamilton and their stupid Mayor are becoming a national joke.
And this will become worse if they lose the stadium and ultimately may lose the Cats as well.
Sounds to me this clan is no better than the looney left tree huggers in the city of Toronto.
Neither could organize a one car parade. Where is Sheila Copps that other butt of jokes to make matters worse.
Good reads. I think MLSE would welcome a Hamilton stadium without a track that is more soccer friendly. And welcome Hamilton getting a stadium period if Bob wants to bring pro soccer to Hamilton. I say this because I think MLSE was in Melnyk's back pocket trying to get Ottawa a MLS team back a year or so ago when Melnyk was trying to hijack the Lansdowne Live group and get a soccer specific stadium in Kanata. MLSE would very much like another Ontario MLS team at some point for local rivalries and hence more excitement for TFC and it's not like they have to share lots of TV money since I doubt there is much money in TV from MLS games.
Who knows, maybe MLSE was actually behind this Perkins' article, you never know with MLSE, they have a lot of power in Toronto and with all levels of government in this province when it comes to sports I think. I didn't realize joedav that TFC tickets aren't as hot as they have been, that's interesting.
You know, you might have a point Earl. Certainly opening up rivalries with Hamilton and Montreal for MLS or even USL franchises for the Nutrilite championship does a lot to attract viewership, sponsorship and expanded revenue to MLS and TFC. Heck enough viewers, MLSE might push a TV deal with CBC.
Also given that a lot of the MLS teams down south aren't doing so well, getting Hamilton a USL team that can step up to play TFC instead of having the league fail is another thing they might be considering as well. My prototype logo in the other thread, speaks to my desire to see a major soccer franchise in Hamilton.
With no track or warm-up lanes we could build the seats almost up to the edge of the field… maybe put in a concrete wall or something to stop players from going into the stands. Now where have I seen something like that before…
I’ve been to a handful of games and have close friends who are TFC season ticket holders in the ‘ultra supporters sections’ in the southeast corner at BMO Field.
They tell me generally the stadium isn’t filled to the brim as has been the case in year’s past. I was able to easily score tickets below face value outside the stadium hours in advance of a game I attended this year. The attendance was announced as 20,000 and change in the now 21,000ish capacity BMO Field. Having said that the stadium was no more than 70% or 80% filled which would put the attendance more in the 15,000 or 16,000 range.
MLSE and the supporters groups will still point to a season ticket ‘waiting list’ which I’m sure exists, but if there’s visibly empty seats and single tickets readily available, you have to wonder if that waiting list will be sustainable in the coming years, especially if the team continues to struggle on the field. Apparently they’re in 3rd of 8 teams in the east this year so they might make the playoffs this year.
The other thing TFC seems to suffer from is an ‘out of sight, out of mind’ phenomenon where many people claim to love soccer and follow the team but this is then in turn not reflected in television viewership. No one seems to watch TFC’s road games.
Regarding MLSE’s thoughts on soccer in Hamilton:
I don’t know if they’d be as supportive of a Hamilton USL or MLS team as they would for Montreal, Ottawa or Vancouver. For MLSE, those cities are large TV markets sufficiently far away not to take from their local fanbase. Montreal or Vancouver would raise TFC’s national TV profile presumably at least doubling their now dismal ratings.
I once spoke to an MLSE ticket sales representative for TFC who mentioned 7% of his accounts were from the Hamilton area.
I’m not sure how happy they’d be for a competing pro soccer outfit to be located 45 minutes down the QEW at the Pan-Am Stadium.
I agree, We won't be getting a soccer venue for the Pan Ams. Wish it weren't true
so funny how people take an idea that was written in a newspaper and run with it like that was going to happen ....
POP
That was your bubble bursting folks