Perfect Gameplan by Bombers vs LIONS- CREDIT DESERVEd

I was watching this game from the upper deck as you can get a better view of the game and evaluate talent.

I knew before this game that Winnipeg IMO has one of the TOP 2 defenses in the CFL--- If not the best Defense as I think the Bombers are better vs the pass than the ALS who can be beaten DEEP via the pass--

I was paying close attention to the Bombers gameplan and the play calls. The simplified offense was working well, MIKE BISHOP is a QB that cannot make reads, you almost have to stick with a simple play call like a receiver running a deep out or comeback route.

Bishop actually has a fast release. He was doing well as his arm is so strong that any receiver who runs a deep comeback or an out route is almost guaranteed to be completed.

The bunch formation was good, and it left ROMBY Bryant wide open in the middle of the field a few times, I didnt see a BC player even10 yards from him, Bishop was a little slow but still got the ball there.

The simple play call of a deep square in to BROCK RALPH vs a smallish Db of 5'8 was a good call and worked a few times. It was easy for Bishop to just throw the ball-

I have followed BISHOP all his career and at KANSAS state when he was good, he had 1 read and just threw the ball to a receiver. HIs arm was so strong that he could just put the ball there if the receiver could get open its a completion.

The issues with Bishop are when he has to see the whole field. They need to make the offense where he has a fast and quick read and throws it, if he doesent he scrambles and makes a play which he did for the TD to Edwards and another completion to edwards earlier in the game, and also a nice run late for 7 yards..

I will tell you one thing, Winnipeg allowed 39 to MONTREAL despite turning the ball over 4 times in their own territory. ALso factor in about 15 2 and out series also. Giving 39 is amazing--

This team can beat anyone including MTL if they just dont turn the ball over.

BISHOP if they give him one receiver to throw to, like the wideouts on simple routes, he will not turn the ball over--

Of course then you have the great RUN Game of REID who was way faster than ANY BC player---

I believe the problem with BISHOP is that they are trying to make him into a QB that he IS NOT- He is not a drop back passer who is going to read the DEFENSE and make RICKY RAY like reads. He is a strong arm QB who needs to know where he is throwing the ball, and then he can make that throw.

Bishop needs to play in the most simplified offense imagineable. He can make the throws where the Db's pretty much have no chance of making a play.
Those deep comebacks and wide receiver outs are a sure pass with BISHOP-

Slowly then you can build the playbook a little, but its like this- They never let BISHOP learn the simple plays and simple stuff and just threw it all on his lap. THere is no way he would understand that whole boook.

Bishop looked less confused and confident and more importantly the BALL was out QUICKER< he threw the ball fast which is what is needed- WHEN BISHOP gets in trouble its when he holds onto the ball and is trying to read the DEFENSE which he is not good at.

He has to make a quick read and throw or tuck the ball and RUN and try to make a play being an ATHLETE--

BOMBERS D called a great game, they played the PERFECT D vs JARIOUS JACKSON using 2 deep safeties and taking his deep ball away- Jarious is not a good short ball QB-

I give credit to KELLY for changing the offense, what they ran yesterday was SMART and high percentage offense. AS LONG as you dont turn the ball over and run the BALL this DEFENSE is good enough to win games IMO.

I don't know if the BOMBERS read these boards but I can tell you that when BISHOP was at K STATE he was rated very high as a NFL qb, even higher than TOM BRADY at PATS camp.

When I watched BISHOP in his last year at K STATE I saw a QB that would take the ball, drop back and let the ball go on a quick slant or an out. He was throwing short to intermediate routes and his arm was so strong that when its one on one coverage the Db's have no chance at all to make a play.

yesterdaY i saw glimpses of that from Bishop. That is when he was at his best in K STATE- was a 10-1 record with ARGOS as starter also. I was watching the receivers vs the DB's and when BOWMAN came out of his break BISHOP was already throwing the ball , that play was unstoppable, the DB has no chance at making a play there.

The less BISHOP has to think the more he can use his ARM and be an athlete. AT K state he was throwing vs mostly single coverage. IN THE CFL there is a lot of single coverage still.

They have to keep Bishop from throwing passes in the middle of the field where ITS ZONE coverage and linebackars are hiding and safeties are deep.

I think the Bombers are on the right track, but I would suggest that they go back and look at the FILM when BISHOP was playing at K STATE in 1997 vs the Syracuse Orangeman where K state won 35-18-

Bishop threw 4 td's in that bowl game, had simple reads, used DARNELL MCdonald a lot and looked super confident and was game MVP of that game.
The opposing QB Bishop outplayed and beat was Donovan MCNABB--

The plays that they were calling for Bishop in 1997 was the plays that work with a QB with this type of arm. He is more ABILITY than brains, so you have to just let him throw the ball to receivers who can get any separation from dbs-

Great observations, enjoyed reading it all.

By the way, the Bombers called Bishops old coach from K State last week for a few tips, looks like they heard the same things you saw.

Kelly did a complete 360 DEGREE turn around in terms of playbook and philosophy. Bomber fans give this guy credit, he is trying to WIN and making changes-
He already has the leagues best DEFENSE easily.

Now he is making changes, benching Lefors, bringing in Bishop, completely changing the playbook to work with BISHOP--

If the right mind is able to tutor BISHOP and simplify the game for him you can WIN with him as your starting QB--

Saskatchewan last year used Bishop wrong also, they let him throw interceptions and didnt make things easy and simple for him.
Winnipeg did the same thing early on. Bishop is a good game manager, he is not the guy to start pressing with.

Once they teach him to complete passes, he will get more comfortable and then he will stop over throwing the deep balls as the game will have slowed down for him and he will relax more.

It will come with time, Bishop is the man and with this running game they really should have one of the best offenses in the CFL-

dont get too far ahead of yourself. great post about bishop tho. your right he needs a play where he knows where he is going with the ball.. so if the reciever can get seperation he seems to be able to gun it in there for an easy completion..

however those easy routes wont always be there. sometimes he will have to go to three and four reads.. lets hope he becomes better at picking those up. besides our running game our pass attack is still nothing teams are worried about... 11-20 completions is better than usual. but nothing to jump for joy about

hopefully the gameplan for sask is as effective.. so i wont hear it all game from sask fans in regina :wink:

...Don't know if it was a 'perfect' gameplan....but it sure worked.....A lot of people are forgetting that Bishop can also carry the rock when he has to....There were a couple of plays, as i recall ,Michael could have easily run for a first down , instead of gunning the ball up the middle like he was almost picked off... Kelly let him know about it....He's no slouch when he smells an opening, but for some reason he hesitates to commit himself to the run, when you do that ,the play is lost...I guess you can put that down to the fact, he is still familiarizing himself with the offence and players.....I agree, that a simplified playbook works best for Bishop....I like the take , that he is a great physical player, rather than a cerebral one,.... and so build on that strength....This could end up being one of Bishops more successful campaigns.. :thup:

Let’s check the stats for Winnipeg's D on this assertion:

Fewest 1st Downs: 8th
Fewest 1st Downs Rushing: 4th
Fewest 1st Downs Passing: 8th
Fewest Yds Total Offense: 7th
Avg. Yds Offense Per Game: 5th
Fewest Yds Net Rushing: 4th
Avg Yds Rushing Per Game: 4th
Avg Gain Per Rush: 3rd
Avg Gain Per Pass: 4th
Fewest Yds Net Passing: 8th
Avg Yds Passing Per Game: 7th
Fewest Passes Attempted: 8th
Fewest Passes Completed: 8th
Lowest % Passes Completed: 6th
Most INTs: 1st
Most INT Rtn Yds: 1st
Fewest Field Goals: 6th
Avg. Points Per Game: 2nd
QB Sacks: 6th
Fewest Passing TDs: 8th
Fewest Rushing TDs: 4th
Fewest TDs: 5th
Fewest Points: 3rd

Winnipeg leads the league in interceptions and INT return yardage, sits second in Avg. Points Per Game, and third in Fewest Total Points and Avg. Gain Per Rush. In every other defensive category, they’re either in the middle of the pack or at the bottom.

The Bombers have a good defense, no doubt, but are they ‘easily’ the best D in the league? I don’t think so.

If you boil down your posts, Cobra, this appears to be where it's at. Basically, are you saying that Bishop isn't exactly a bright lad?

I never said Bishop was not bright. There are 2 types of QB's---

A QB that has a Good enough Arm but masters how to read a Defense and where to put the ball.

These type of QB's are like Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Ricky Ray, Kurt Warner type of QB's..

Then there is the other type like the Michael Bishops, Jeff George, Henry Burris, Kerry Joseph, Dante Cullpepper, Jamarcus Russell who's major assets is a STRONG CANNON ARM.

When all you have is a strong arm it does not work unless you have a GREAT run game and an offense that makes the QB not have to think too much.

Put it this way, guys like Kerry Joseph, Mike Bishop, Burris, Cullpepper, Russell are basically football players, they should be playing other positions, however because they have a strong arm they are playing QB--

Kerry Joseph was a safety in the NFL-- Henry Burris started for the Bears in a prime time game and possibly played the worst game I have ever seen by a PRO QB-- IMO Burris is one of the worst QB's playing, he has such a good arm but absolutely no BRAIN at all.

Bishop has not learned too much in terms of DEFENSES and is in the 2nd category--

You fail with this statement.

Here is some information on QB HENRY BURRIS. This is what he did in his 2 NFl starts. I find this is important because it shows that basically one of the more known QB's in the CFL named Henry Burris looked like an amateur in the NFL.

He was 8 of 22 for 50 yards and a touchdown against Carolina, fumbling twice, and 7 of 19 for 78 yards and four interceptions against Tampa Bay, for a 10.3 QB rating. While his passing was quite poor he showed better than average running ability for a quarterback, finishing the 2002 season with 15 rushes for 104 yards.

TO play in the NFL you have to be smart and quick with decisions. BURRIS cant do that, its clearly obvious.

BISHOP however has a faster release than Burris who stands there and stares at the Defense and at his receiver. It wont be long until Burris is exposed for the poor QB that he really is.

This is what HUFFNAGEL did with Burris and how they won a GREY CUP--

Huffnagel understood that he had a Very strong armed QB in Burris with Very low football intelligence. Huffnagel started making Burris throw short and do the dink and dunk game. Last years grey cup was a JOKE, Burris was throwing 5 yard passes all game long.
Huffnagel is one smart man, he knows that when Burris throws any passes over 15 yards, they are basically 50% chance of being intercepted.

QB's like Burris only have eyes for the deep ball.

A perfect ex is Jarious Jackson, He doesent even look at any receivers running patterns less than 15 yards, unless the coaches force him to throw short- He is going deep no matter what--

So with Bishop you need to teach him the short game and the intermediate game, his arm suits those throws and he can get rid of the ball fast, which is something that Jarious Jackson, Burris , Joseph and Durant cannot do at all.

I believe out of all Qb's in the CFL that Bishop has the potential to be better than Burris. If BURRIS can win a grey CUP despite being one of the worst professional QB's in the world, BISHOP can win one also as he is a much better QB overall than Burris.

I have watched Burris play for years, and he folds in any BIG game and his EYES get so BIG.. The only reason they won last year was because of the DEFENSE- A great O LINE- Wicked special teams- and a good running game- And best COACHING last year.

Burris was there to just not screw things up.

I was at the Edmonton game vs Calgary where Burris shredded Edmonton for 35 points and threw for tons of yards..

However looking at that game closer, I was extremely unimpressed by BURRIS, he was EYE BALLING and staring at COPELAND or LEWIS on every play. The Db on Edmonton BUHL was possibly the worst DB I have seen play. He doesent move, stands there and does nothing.
The level of some of the Db's in the CFL is so bad, that a QB like Burris can STARE right at an AGING receiver and throw it to him 11 times for 177 yards..

Put Burris against any good DEFENSE and watch what he has done, very very little. He did nothing vs MTL- nothing at Winnipeg, and he struggled mightily at home to the Argos as most of the points were made by the Defense-

Burris success has nothing to do with him and is all on the receivers. RAMBO could blow any Db in this league away. RAMBO is too fast, I mean a guy like DANTE MARSH trying to cover RAMBO is comical.

Sorry, you lost all credibility when you used a couple of NFL starts from years ago to justify a ridiculous statement like "Burris is a terrible QB." This is the CFL, not the NFL, and in the CFL, Burris is coming off a GODDAMN GREY CUP. Minimize it all you want, but he has a Grey Cup ring as a starting QB. Sure, Burris's great effort against Edmonton was all the fault of the crappy Edmonton DBs, but Ray's great effort against Calgary was entirely the product of his own ability at QB. Uh huh.

You fail.

That is a lot of 8th. for "Easily the best defense".... Mabye Cobra is 10 years old :?

Winning a grey cup as a starter does not mean much as anyone with knowledge of the CFL would understand that point.

What ever happened to that CFL MVP at QB who won a grey cup 2 years ago? Kerry Joseph? He was shipped off pretty fast was he not?

Ricky RAY actually was moving the football by making reads and getting everyone involved in the game. Cgy has 2 of the best corners in the CFL--

Edmonton has Db's that Jarious Jackson torched, and db's that should not be playing SEMI PRO football. Albeit they had injuries but how is BUHL and Bobby Keyes starting in the CFL is a mystery to me.

Winning a grey cup in a 8 team league means little. A league that will call a QB Bishop who is in Texas to come and start for them immediately shows you the depth at the QB position in this league.

IN the 80's and 90's PORTER would barely make a team yet alone be a starter..

I am not using 2 games in evaluating BURRIS. I have watched almost every game he has played in and he is not a good QB, that is obvious from watching him play. He has is all arm and no brains at all.

Wally Buono an unpredictable bipolar egotistical coach won many GREY CUPS, that does not mean he is a GREAT COACH. He is a poor coach that always had either FLUTIE, GARCIA OR DICKENSON qb'ing his teams--

Wally is such a great coach, look at him when he doesent have the best talent on his team?

Lmao at Burris winning a GREY CUP-- Burris was the main thing holding them back but last year the Defense and special teams won it. Shutting down MTL in that 2nd down to 0 points was the reason they won the Grey CUP-- Huffnagel thought ok Burris just dont mess it up and hand the ball off and throw 5 yard short passes-

Bombers D is the best in the league. Only fools like at stats for evaluating real talent--

Is anyone going to try and tell me MTL has a better Defense? let's see how many drives CALVILLO does and how long the Defense is resting for?
The ALS offense puts their Defense in better positions, not to mention they are rested and LEADING games. The ALS defense is a FRONT RUNNING DEFENSE-

I want to see if the ALS have an offense like Winnipeg how good they do on Defense?

Being 8th in Defense when you are essentially playing the whole game on Defense has no merit at all.

Winnipeg has some of the Best Defensive performances and has never really had the FULL LINEUP playing. Brown was hurt earlier, Shabbaz missed a few games, linebackers were injured, Logan is hurt.

The ALS I dont believe have had any injuries really at all on their D----

The ALS D is not great at all, Ricky RAY torched them at home, and the ALS always start every year very HOT on defense and then start to cool down and wear down late in the 2nd half of the season-

Bombers are going to peek and improve every week---

The secondaries are no comparisons- MTL is very average and undersized--

Give it 7 weeks and you will clearly see who is the BEST D in the league---

I have seen MTL play and they are all or nothing team, if they dont get out to a big lead, their D will falter and blow the game for them-

Never let the facts get in the way of a good delusion. Enjoy your world, it must be very entertaining.

What matters is turnovers and and points allowed... who cares if they are giving up some yards here and there if they arnt letting the opposition score and turning the ball over for the offense... that makes a good D.

Besides... how in the world do you think they are going to lead the league in yards allowed when they are on the field for 3/4ths of every game?

best is between montreal and bombers IMO. just by watching the teams you can see this... you dont even have to look at the stats. However, montreals D has the benifit of working with the best offense in the leand

burris is easilly the third best QB in the CFL... he has very good physical tools, and isnt a super cerebral QB like ricky ray or calvio, but he isnt quite as Dull football wise as say a Mike Bishop...

Burris is cerebral enough to be successful in this league, 3 years ago i would have agreed with cobra, but last year and this year hes really started to turn a corner..

Mind you, i recently had a child, so i barely have enough time to watch the bomber games, never mind a lot of calgary games ha ha...