Pan Am stadium Lansdowne comparisons

Here is an article for you to read, folks.

EMC News Ottawa East

Lansdowne design panel seeks public input

Posted Jan 22, 2010 By Desmond Devoy

[url=http://www.emcottawaeast.ca/20100122/news/Lansdowne+design+panel+seeks+public+input]http://www.emcottawaeast.ca/20100122/ne ... blic+input[/url]

Urban designer and landscape architect, George Dark wasted no time in expressing what
he felt were important things to consider when redesigning the park from its current state.

Here are some of the similarities I saw that compare
to our Hamilton situation that I got out of this article.

"There's absolutely no sense in building a stadium that will only be used a few days of the year," said Dark.

...he noted that civic space had to be connected to the community, as well
..."I would include the culture of sport," in that equation, said Dark.


and vice versa, that is why the Pan Am operating committee
is likely going to locate a multi-purpose Pan Am/Ticat stadium

in the most critical civic space in Hamilton, our downtown,
to help the businesses already there and stimuate new ones

not in a farmer's field or beside highway # 403 or the Link
where a car is the only way to get to the businesses nearby.

The design committee will look at three specific areas:

the proposed waterfront park, the future of Frank Clair stadium,
and the residential/commercial component of the project,

"bringing all three of those elements together," said Coun. Hume.


Waterfront, commercial residential..Sounds like our proposed new stadium.
"Roger Greenberg, the longtime frontman for the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group

...repeated his assertion that the Live plan
was not just a way to bring (CFL) football back

to Ottawa, but as a way to help
revamp "a money-draining eyesore."


Like the Rheem factory site and neaby land which has been
zoned for residential development with no takers for a long time.
..."We want to build something that will make us all proud," said Greenberg, something that will bring people to the area, not just on CFL game days,

but all year-round.


A multi-purpose development on the Rheem site would make me proud of our city
and hopefully, it would bring people to our downtown, not just on CFL game days.
"Today, it's a parking lot.

It's a flat expanse of asphalt
with buildings that are falling down,

a place that has lost its way," Dark said.


Just as the Rheem location is a patch of weedy land,
railway tracks and a building that is falling down.

Confederation Park has an even more eerie similarity to the Ottawa article than Rheem since it actually waterfront. Rheem is neither downtown nor waterfront although it is an eyesore that needs remediation (the original condo/parkland concept in the master plan would do that much better IMO).

Nice find ron.

Just more confirmation of current planning trends. An exciting prospect for sure.

Ron, are you trying to confuse us with facts? Some of us prefer Mel Gibson's conspiracy theories. :lol:
Pat Lynch (the old guy in section 7)

The waterfront is still within walking distance

although it is an eyesore that needs remediation

(the original condo/parkland concept in the
master plan would do that much better IMO).


That plan may have been a great plan, AKT but

the properties that the city wants the Pan Am stadium on
are so toxic no developers have chosen to remediate it.

so it's time for the city to work with the neighbourhood
to get rid of the eyesore for the residents who live there

and stimuate some economic development down in that area
and upgrade the property taxes for the city at the same time.

P.S.

The facts aren't coming too fast and furious for you are they, Mr Lynch?

I agree that developers have refused to remediate the land in question but that only necessitates the city does the job, not that the city maintains ownership afterwards. Either way the city is going to get stuck with the same cleanup costs. The Pan Ams are really not going to bring in additional cleanup funds as suggested. We get a set amount for the stadium no matter where its built and we pick up the remainder of the tab. If we choose another site we'll get about the same but we might expect to get more from private enterprise both for the stadium itself and for adjacent businesses. The fact is Rheem will get cleaned up with or without the stadium since our council determined to purchase the site. The only question to be answered is what is the best end use for the site after the cleanup and what is the difference in cost to operating a stadium on the site or selling it at a loss for the development of a condo/park area by private enterprise and guaranteeing future tax revenues. Its really not all black and white. Council may very well be correct in choosing the Rheem site but the fact remains there are alternatives and none of them seems to be very well researched

Keep the information coming,Ron. Your logical presentations are really necessary on this site and in the public generally. :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
Pat Lynch(the old guy in section 7)

Your posts never cease to amaze me. The waterfront, and downtown core are both within walking distance, and Confederation Park was removed from consideration nearly a year ago for the conservation of green space in an urban area. So you are raising a moot point, and beating a dead horse all at once.

Excellent post Ron, informative, and well thought out. Thank you.

:roll: OK then I own waterfront. Its only a 30 minute walk to US Steel. Easily walkable by me. In fact I did it for years. A 15 minute walk to the water is not waterfront and a 15 minute walk to downtown buisness is not downtown

Rheem is not a 15 minute walk to the waterfront

and a 15 minute walk to downtown buisness is not downtown
How about 5 minutes?

Nope I've done it. 8 minutes minumum 15 minutes for many. It still illustrates that its not waterfront if you have to walk there. Thanks for the backup

ok this is getting lame ..... a few minutes WHHOOOOOPPPPP DEEEEE DOOOOOOOOOOOO

fact is its close to both places .. at least agree to that

So did a reporter (Paul Wilson IIRC) from a proposed LRT stop at Hess and king to the proposed stadium site.

Driving from Hess Village ( King & Hess) to Barton and Hess the odometer reading was 800 meters.

Hess Village isn't really downtown tho. I was referring to the walk over to James North. BTW I don't believe a 1 kilometer walk is all that close in most people's minds anyway

Anything over a 5 minute walk for many Canadians is considered a marathon, sad, no wonder we are a very unfit and generally overweight nation. Sad state of affairs. :frowning:

Those people can transfer on to the north leg of the LRT .

It's not in the downtown BIA, but to me it feels like part of downtown, albeit at the periphery. Aside from BIAs, though, it's impossible to lay down a precise border between "downtown" and "not downtown".

I wouldn't consider a 1km walk to be that long, but then, I'm young(ish), so I don't mind walking. Anything less than a half-hour seems short to me.

Consider this, though. The harbourfront trail is 3.4 km. When my dad was in his 70s, he could still walk the length of it and back for a total of nearly 7 km, and at quite a clip too, despite having numerous health problems that sapped his energy. He even had a handicap parking permit. I wonder how much of a problem 1km would really be to most people, especially if they're healthy and not senior citizens.

If the city hadn't bought it it wouldn't have had to remediate it.

The Pan Ams are really not going to bring in additional cleanup funds as suggested.
Why did the city buy those properties?

The senior governments will give infrastructure money to them to move forward the Pan Am games
wheras they wouldn't give money to clean up propety to private residential developers to build condos.

The city will get clean up money when they apply for infrastructure money from both governments

They won't use very much of their Pan Am stadium money for remediating land.

We get a set amount for the stadium no matter where its built and we pick up the remainder of the tab.

If we choose another site we'll get about the same


Not true. As I said, we can get Infrastructure money.
but we might expect to get more from private enterprise both for the stadium itself and for adjacent businesses.
The fact is Rheem will get cleaned up with or without the stadium since our council determined to purchase the site.

The only question to be answered is what is the best end use for the site after the cleanup
and what is the difference in cost to operating a stadium on the site or selling it at a loss

for the development of a condo/park area by private enterprise and guaranteeing future tax revenues.

Its really not all black and white.


Sports and recreation facilities are a higher and better use
for the Rheem property and the property in proximity to it

than condos and parks and they also bring in more property taxes.

Council may very well be correct in choosing the Rheem site but the fact remains there are alternatives

and none of them seems to be very well researched


AKT, since details on the research on all three top choices has yet to come out
we won't know how well researched they are until research reports are published.

In my opinion, one report will show that

a stadium/sports facility and a velodrome on the West harbour front lands will bring synergies
between the waterfront, that North End neighbourhood, and Hamilton's neglected downtown.

As George Dark, the designer and architect for the Lansdowne Park lands said
it is important to connect neighbourhoods to the surrounding community

and I sure he meant that the whole community would be enhanced by that.

Not only are you assuming there will be an LRT Kirk you are now assuming that some decision has been made as to where it will run. Talk about putting the cart ahead of the horse. The LRT is much more contentious than the stadium as it will directly affect 10's of thousands of residents along the route and frankly nothing is assured at this point. My understanding is the preferred route won't have a north or south leg on the east west route and the north (lower city)south route (upper city) is years down the road after the east west route completion. Personally as a resident along the route I hope it never arrives. Bus service is fine here and closing King Street downtown and rendering it useless for miles eastward while making Main 2 way makes my house almost inaccessible. For better or worse I need to be able to drive in and out on occasion

Ok, HSR bus then.

I only used the LRT example to follow the lead of the Spec reporter's experience.