Pan Am Games? Thanks, but no thanks.

Hamilton Tiger-Cats
#1

?My choice for the Pan Am Games?
Bogotá, Colombia
Why?

  1. They already have the structures built to host this event.
  2. For Ontario to spend over a billion dollars on 2 weeks of “B Team? athletic competition from
    the Americas does not make sense in these economic times. Btw, name the past winners of the
    these games?.... or name at least one athlete who competed. Personally, I would prefer to watch
    the Canusa games.
  3. BMO Field in Toronto cost 70 million to build 3 years ago to seat 20,000. It’s a cheap metal
    structure that shakes. What do you think Hamilton will get for a 150 million dollar stadium built
    by 2015? We will get a slightly bigger tin can version of BMO Field..... and with a track around
    it.
  4. If fans and taxpayers think they will get a big comfortable stadium for 150 million, they are
    mistaken. Stadiums like BC place, Skydome, or even Commonwealth would cost into the
    billion of dollars to construct today. That's 7 or 8 times the price tag of a recent and very conservative 150 million price tag for a new decent CFL size stadium in Hamilton. BC Place today operates on a yearly 4 million dollar deficit after profit and not including $2.3 million for amortization. Commonwealth Stadium spent over 22 million a few years ago just for reconstruction maintenance and BMO Field has already had to undergo emergency repairs.
  5. Ivor Wynne Stadium is made of concrete and will be here longer than any BMO Fields.
    IWS’s north stands were built in the early 1970's and are newer than a lot of the stands in
    Calgary’s McMahon 35,000 Stadium which just happens to be hosting the 2009 Grey Cup.
  6. The Tiger-Cats and their fans have contributed tons to this city and it’s time for the city to get
    behind them and procure some provincial money to refurbish the stadium and hey what about
    expanding the west endzone or rebuiling the south stands maybe even with a 2nd tier..... or
    creating multi-level parking on the Brian Timmins site.
  7. Copps and Hamilton Place can host any concert that ever comes through Southern Ontario.
8) As much as I and Hamilton's 400 soccer fans appreciate Bob’s throwing around quotes for millions and maybe even tens of millions, it will not be even nearly enough to replace IWS.
#2

A well argued position.

Thing is though, if the city does not get this stadium, that provincial, federal and private money will just be spent elsewhere with no guarantee that it would be better spent.

I guess the argument for a new stadium is all about timing and opportunity.

#3

synthcat:

         Its easy to be negative....but Bob and others are willing to add millions of dollars to get a stadium if we get the Games.  Do they know something you don't?
#4

Yes, excellent points. Let's just give the money to another municipality who would rather have it than Hamilton, easy enough decision, no need to discuss this any further then really I guess. We don't have to take any money afterall, it's not like it's being forced down our throats. :?
I guess some would say "B" class athletes, just like the CFL and Tiger-Cats are a "B" class league and Hamilton a "B" class city. You can always put the spin on something any way you want it, just like using stats to prove a point. :?

#5

Well if Hog Town...oops, Toronto was to back out of or even lose the games, then hey according to certain belief, the province has over a billion dollars waiting to be spent. That is the time for Bob, the Fredster, and our other well paid elected councillors to get their acts together once again and put forth an application for financial support to upgrade the biggest publicly funded stadium in Ontario.... Ivor Wynne Stadium!

#6

Great post Earl. I agree with you 100%, that you can put a positive or negative spin on anything. It's not everyday money is offered from governments and local investors, so take a chance while you can. And Bmo was built on 62 million, so lets say you round that down to 60. 150 million dollars is equal to 250% the stadium Bmo is. I'm pretty sure the stadium will be alot better than Bmo since we have 250% of the funding they had.

#7

Let's say, for the sake of arguing, that Toronto gets an NFL team. That leaves Ti-Cats as the only Southern Ontario team. Hamilton then becomes the place to go to see the CFL. Then a new facility would be needed anyway.

#8

Never mind that the construction of a stadium would create jobs in Hamilton and subsequently put money into the local economy where as it could be spent on government bureaucrats in ottawa, toronto, or where ever else.

Never mind.

#9

Just want to be sure I wasn’t suggesting at all that the Tiger-Cats and Hamilton, or for that matter Pan-Am athletes are “B” class as synthcat indicated for the latter. Quite frankly, I don’t even quite know what “B” class means ie. is the last place team in any league after a season is over a “B” class team compared with the others?

Even if some countries aren’t sending the best athletes for whatever sport for a particular event, why does this detract from the overall mission of the Pan-Am Games which is a fairly well known event? We like the CFL most of us here and yet most of the players have not made NFL teams which is just about all, maybe all, want to on for the big money.

So please, let’s get off of the “B” class talk because I don’t think it does anyone any good in an open and honest discussion of what being a co-host for a fairly elite athletic competition is such as the Pan-Am Games and what it can do for a community ie. school groups attending some of the competitions can see athletes performing in great events that are outside of the norm of hockey, football, soccer, basketball and baseball. When I was in grade school and high school, I would have loved to have witnessed some great athletes in my community, first hand and up close. Athletics and keeping in shape is important for people’s self-image and has even demonstrated health benefits et al. Most of us would agree this is a good thing, a very good thing.

#10

its all good,just dont complain when your already the highest in the country property taxes get even higher

#11

I won't complain. My wife and myself don't have children and have no intention of complaining about education taxes we pay and we don't drive the highways all that much compared to many but again, I won't complain. I see a huge value in the Pan-Am Games even if I have to pay an extra $100 buck or so per year on some property taxes. I give up 3-4 cases a beer a year, I can do that. Hmmm, I think I can. :wink:

Just read that now Merulla is calling the Pan-Am athletes, according to Andrew Dreschel, "3rd and 4th rate athletes". Give it up Merulla, you come across to me like some ____________________ I better not say, I'll get banned from here I'm sure. :x

[url=http://www.thespec.com/Opinions/article/511350]www.thespec.com/Opinions/article/511350[/url]
#12
8) If Toronto does get an NFL team, you won't have to worry about going to Hamilton to watch a CFL game because the team will not exist any more, along with the rest of the league !!!!
#13
8) The sad part about Merulla is that he obviously has lots of fans in Hamilton, because he keeps getting voted back in !!!! 
   "Forgive them, for they know not what they do"           <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: -->
#14

Merulla is missing a few points (as always):

  • Infrastructure rpairs will continue regardless if Hamilton gets the stadium or not.
  • $50 Million, or thereabouts, is alot of money to turn down to replace an old stadium
  • What about spinoff jobs created to build the facility?
  • Land development to areas adjacent to the new stadium would certainly bring money into City coffers
  • How much money will the city/local businesses make during the event?
  • "4th rate athletes" - say that to one of them!!
  • How do the Ticats/Bulldogs rate? Are they 4th rate athletes as well?

I remember reading a poster that said "Short term pain for Long term gain"

#15

For those who think its a good idea to upgrade Ivor Wynne.. do you always put a band aid on something that needs stitches?

Upgrading Ivor Wynne would add maybe 20-30 years tops to its life but a brand new stadium would last 60-100 years. Don't get me wrong.. I love Ivor Wynne but its prime years have long passed and the place will start falling apart in about 5 years.

#16

In terms of repairing IWS and whether this would be worth it in the long run, I thought this was interesting although there certainly wouldn’t be the amount of salt on IWS and there would be on a bridge. Although I don’t know what chemicals come out of the steel industries close to IWS that might mix with water and cause some similar issues? :

The most common death scenario for a bridge goes like this: Water, bearing road salt, seeps into the bridge through cracks in the road. Eventually, it slips through cracks in the concrete to contact the steel structure inside. Salt combined with moisture conduct stray electrical currents, which speed up the salt’s ability to corrode steel. Steel expands up to 40 percent as it corrodes, popping open more cracks and dramatically weakening the concrete around it.

news.thomasnet.com/IMT/archives/2006/10/a_new_spin_on_old_building_material_staple_cool_concrete.html

#17

The guy raises some great points.
Do think there is anything "A" class about BMO Field? That place feels temporary -- like the stands they put in for the Indy.

Ivor Wynne has a Wrigley Field/ Fenway Park feeling to it. A classic football stadium...right out of the paintings.

My worry is that a "B" or "C" class stadium would be put up...then we'd be screwed. It'd last about 20 years, max, and we'd lose our touch with the experience of Ticat football.

#18

About BMO, I've never been there but people do say it sounds and looks like a tin can. Although reading this paper below mentions that structural steel has advantages over using concrete so maybe this is one of the reasons they went this way:

In addition, the quality of the structural steel is better than concrete as the sections are manufactured in the factory under a careful quality control...

[url=http://www.efka.utm.my/thesis/IMAGES/3PSM/2006/1JSB/PART1/taiwaiyauaa010479d06ttp.pdf]www.efka.utm.my/thesis/IMAGES/3PSM/2006 ... d06ttp.pdf[/url]
#19

From wikiepedia

Back in Olympic gold medalist Mark Spitz's day,
there were no professional competitions

to draw the athletes away from the Pan Am Games.

It is valid to consider the games a "B" event because

the top athletes from several nations, the U.S.included,
were competeing at a big professional in Europe event
during the time of the 1999 Winnipeg Pan Am Games.

In 1999, no major US networks covered the Games,

while newspapers only sent second-string reporters
instead and the stories never made front page news.

So what?

In Canada, we had a spotlight on the Games

There was plenty of coverage.

A nightly two-hour program on CBC, plus
an local hour on Winnpeg affiliate CBWT

Radio-Canada had French-language coverage

and there was daytime coverage on TSN.

Observing events like this can be a great benefit to our youth

because they can instill in them an interest in participating in sport.

They get exposure all the time to football hockey and basketball.

The Games present other activities they might participate in

to gain the benefits that you describe below, Earl.

Even if some countries aren't sending the best athletes for whatever sport for a particular event,

why does this detract from the overall mission of
the Pan-Am Games which is a fairly well known event?

We like the CFL most of us here and yet
most of the players have not made NFL teams

which is just about all, maybe all, want to on for the big money.

So please, let's get off of the "B" class talk
because I don't think it does anyone any good

in an open and honest discussion of

what being a co-host for a fairly elite athletic competition is
such as the Pan-Am Games and what it can do for a community

ie. school groups attending some of the competitions
can see athletes performing in great events

that are outside of the norm of hockey,
football, soccer, basketball and baseball.

When I was in grade school and high school, I would have loved to have
witnessed some great athletes in my community, first hand and up close.

Athletics and keeping in shape is important for people's self-image
and has even demonstrated health benefits et al.

Most of us would agree this is a good thing, a very good thing.

#20

Interesting ron, thanks!