Ottawa Logo taken down in this new site.

Well apparently this site has some historical falsehoods on it. Calling the Rough Riders a Canadian unit in the Spanish American war would be one of them.

I’ll take Frank Cosentino’s well-researched material over some unreferenced and obviously inaccurate web site anyday. Even if it’s this one.

I agree CRF that since Ottawa teams have used the name on an off for a hundred years that that stands for something. I still say however, and you know this from my other posts, that Ottawa really should have a contemporary name that better reflects the history, culture and especially the languages of the region. I have suggested other names that meet those criteria. The name Rough Riders, no matter how historical it has become (despite it’s original inappropriateness), does not.

I know some are married to that old name, like a comfortable old shoe, but sometimes it’s just time to move on. This is one of those times (presuming Ottawa will eventually get another team).

About that reference, I wasn’t agreeing with it, just pointed out where the other poster got it. I’ve read most of Consentino’s Passing Game book and it’s obvious he did his homework.

I think I mentioned a few days ago a book by a gentleman named Brent Dowdall entitled “Turnover: The Fumbling of the Ottawa Rough Riders”. It makes a reference to a 1908 Ottawa Citizen article which reads:

“Western Ontario papers still refer to the Ottawa as the Rough Riders. The locals have no use for the latter title, discarded it long ago and do not wish to be tagged with a silly and meaningless designation that has absolutely nothing to recommend it. The bonehead who first named the ottawas the Rough riders did more harm to football and football methods in Ottawa than anybody else in the business”.

I’ve never heard about Hamilton calling Ottawa that though, that’s news to me. But the rest of it seems to support Consentino’s version of things.

And though I may come off at times as being totally pro-Riders, I’m not. It depends entirely on the ownership group. I was okay with Palmer making use of it because he had a history with the team. But with someone who doesn’t, I’d just as soon use Renegades again. Or if it turns out a significant number of fans here want Rough Riders, then so be it but left up to me, it probably wouldn’t be.

Hell, at least, the few hundreds in merchandise I bought could be relevant again. :?

Call me all the childish names you like. It doesn’t change anything. Claim (without example) that what I say is ridiculous and that all the evidence I have presented just proves that’s what I am. Fly in the face of published evidence (which you try to discredit simply because you’ve never heard of it), but it’s apparent you just can’t do any better than you have.

I haven’t called you names. Nor have I called you ridiculous. You however, have chosen to take the low road and name-call and flame. That’s OK. It shows the depth of your thinking and the breadth of your skills.

Again, this site (CFL.ca) makes unreferenced and even factually incorrect references to where the Rough Rider’s got their name.

It claims (unreferenced) that “the earliest game on record played in the region was on September 16, 1867, when two non-organized clubs, the Rough Riders and the Senators.” (not sure how it’s possible to be a non-organized “club”, so this is very suspect).

Then later it makes the highly dubious claim that “It was on September 9, 1897 that the Ottawa Football Club was re-christened the Ottawa Rough Riders, adopting their now-famous red and black colour scheme, in honour of the Canadian regiment fighting in the Spanish-American War.” (Teddy Roosevelt’s Rough Riders had red and white regimental colours, and besides, why wouldn’t they get the name from the previous un-organized Rough Riders, if they even existed?)

So where did the name come from REALLY? The original “non-organized” usage from four decades previous, or from this specious “Canadian regiment fighting in the Spanish-American War”?

I suggest to you that the former is lacking in direct evidence and latter is totally wrong.

Moreover, there is evidence that “their now-famous red and black colour scheme” didn’t actually show up until the mid 1920s, casting even more doubt on the accuracy of this site’s “history.”

But, you seem content on accepting this because it supports your beliefs. That’s OK. You are certainly entitled to believe whatever you choose. :slight_smile:

I have done my best in a short period of time to present some alternative evidence which contradicts some of what is written on this site. I think that is enough to show that what is presented on CFL.ca is by no means the only account of the Riders’ history.

I feel, and I too am entitled to my opinion, that the Rough Riders name, historical as it is, is outdated and old fashioned and reflects poorly the history and culture of Ottawa.

Edit: I saw your post after I composed this one CRF, so thanks for that! Interesting quote from the Citizen!

I think whatever Ottawans eventually name their team that they should keep the colours and the big R. That way people can still have a connection to the past and their gear will still be good.

Go Rapids!

I guarantee you that the Canadian regiment fighting in the Spanish/American war did not wear American uniforms. As was said, the Ottawa team wanted to honour the fighting men by adopting their colours and the nickname of their fighting unit, the Rough Riders, commanded by T. Roosevelt...and it was also a nickname that they had been using for over 30 years in honour of the brave log riders who courageously rode the logs down the raging Ottawa river, known locally as Rough Riders. The end.

Show me some clear historical evidence that corroborates what you just claimed. And please make it a relatively reliable source such as a reputable historical society, encyclopedia, dictionary, authentic journal, something other than some unknown person’s opinion.

From what I recall from my history courses, you are referring to log drivers. I have never once ever seen them called rough riders except in reference to the rough rider pike on the Renegades logo, and this is not reliable history. But who knows, I could be wrong. I believe that this is quite possibly an invented history that over the last 75 years or so has become a popular but incorrect legend. Please show me that I’m wrong. You live in Ottawa no? Visit the National Archives and ask for help. I’m certain they will have plenty of documentation of this if it is in fact true.

Below is a list of the men in the Rough Riders. There was one man from Ottawa Canada (Michael J. Kehoe), and another (John Reidy) who was from Ottawa Kansas. Anther guy (Charles Haskell, the first Governor of Oklahoma), after having served with the Riders, moved to Ottawa…Ohio.
See where this is heading and how easy it could have been in 1897 for mistakes to have been made?

There were some 400 Canadian “rough riders” who served for Lord Strathcona’s Horse in the Boer war (recruited in 1900, source: Canadian Pacific Railway Archives. NS.11964), but this was a full two years after the Ottawa football team was named in 1897. This is likely the source of the mistaken belief that Roosevelt’s regiment in the Spanish-American war was Canadian. Accounts of history are often mistaken.

List of Roosevelt’s men in the index:

[url=http://books.google.com/books?id=ZTGklY7HIxEC&pg=PA259&lpg=PA259&dq=%22kehoe+michael+j%22&source=web&ots=FFZ2B1XM0I&sig=RFpfC1__iUuzTZUB1oMMo2P9_ro#PPA275,M1]http://books.google.com/books?id=ZTGklY ... #PPA275,M1[/url]

Canadian Rough Rider from 1900:

http://homepage.mac.com/cpdmac/.Pictures/roughrider.jpg

I’m not misunderstanding you. I was responding to something someone else said. You jumped in, took my words to that person out of context, and began arguing with me.

I’m growing weary of this topic. I’ve said everything I have to say about it, and repeating myself over and over makes as much sense as banging my head against a wall. I don’t care what people in Ottawa want to call their imaginary team. Get one first, and then we can have a meaningful discussion.

All right then. I MUST be misunderstanding you because my intention was not to take your words out of context. I haven’t been here long but I don’t htink you’ll find that I have much of a history of doing that. If I misinterpreted something, it was legitimately on my part and I apologize for it.

You’re totally missing the point. You keep alluding to Roosevelt’s military group and its irrelevance to the city of Ottawa, and I’m saying that the name was in use in Ottawa years before.

That’s exactly what you’re doing to support your own claims. The CFL site indicates that ‘records show’, yet you’re very quick to dismiss it because it doesn’t support your beliefs.

Granted, but it isn’t a very smart thing to call another city’s team’s name ‘stupid’. That certainly isn’t taking the ‘high road’

Go Ottawa Rough Riders! :slight_smile:

What “records”? Show me please. Show me ANY published evidence that the name was common to the area before 1897. I’m certainly willing to admit I’m wrong if you would only produce something other than the nebulous ‘records show’. Besides one instance of naming a ‘non-organized’ ‘club’ (I laugh every time I read that) that does not mean that it was in common use.

I mean think about this for minute. This is akin to me getting together with a bunch of guys from the 'hood on a Saturday for a pickup game and calling ourselves the Tough Guys, then some guy comes along 150 years later, finds an account of this pickup game in the local 'hood newspaper and claims it was commonly used and part of the entire regions heritage.

The same article also claims that Teddy Roosevelt’s unit was Canadian and that the team was named after that unit (NOT because it was used once 40 years previous). I’ve proven that to be false (go back and read what I’ve already written, since you apparently haven’t yet).

And while you’re at it, read the excellent quote that CRF posted from the Citizen, which in part reads “The locals have no use for the latter title, discarded it long ago and do not wish to be tagged with a silly and meaningless designation that has absolutely nothing to recommend it.”

I can certainly call it stupid if the OTTAWA CITIZEN can call it “silly and meaningless.”

I’m sorry if you get all defensive and take that nickname personally, but frankly, that’s your problem not mine. Get over it and get some thicker skin while you’re at it.

And by the way, Ottawa no longer has a team, in fact the last team Ottawa had wasn’t even called Rouch Riders, so your defensiveness for the name of a team that doesn’t even exist and hasn’t for over ten years is just bizarre.

:roll:

That’s one reporter giving his own point of view, so that makes 2 of you.

Heh, likewise. For someone asking to “Bring it on!” you certainly show little backbone.

You’re right, Ottawa doesn’t, and has never had a team called the “Rouch Riders”. You can call that name stupid all you want :slight_smile:

When we had our team renamed Renegades, I didn’t mind it, but many people, including me, wanted the old Rough Riders name back.

There’s a lot of history here for the Rough Riders, fond history; I have many stories myself, and many of us really like the name.

So why don’t you get over the fact that many people still show their Rider pride, including me.

The thing is , the non- support and whining beng done by some Ottawa fans does nothing to support their cause to get a team back. Someone in Ottawa needs to takes the initiative to get a drive going bring a CFL team back. Good Luck to whoever tries , because they will need it in spades.

You bet. Where the fans are concerned, there is some trepidation with some fans about laying down money for season tickets when team ownership and management is uncertain.

I’m ready to do my part! :wink:

Its good that you are ready , but you need at least 19,999 more who are willing to do the same thing-- my guess is you will be hard pressed to find that many more who are interested, let alone putting up their money to get a team back.

I'm guessing that if one fan (and there are at least a few from Ottawa who post in this forum) comes here and passionately defends the honour of his old team, there are probably many who don't. The trouble is they don't have any leadership. Nobody has stepped up and organized a community owned team, let alone ferreted out a private owner.

I have no idea what the mayor is up to in Ottawa but restoring a CFL team doesn't seem to be a big priority, and the mayor would be the natural leader for such a campaign. Personally, if I lived there I would probably not vote for someone who didn't have the interests of the community at heart.

Ottawa fans please sign

http://www.petitiononline.com/ripley7/petition.html

and just for you fans who are being sarcastic? We are working behind the scenes. Nobody has given up and there are times when none of you have a sell out, more times than not. If you cant say anything nice then don`t bother posting, degrading someone when they are down is cruel and disgusting. We need support not useless comments.

I will have to agree with rpaege on this issue.
One thing that bothers me about what you said Tony is Rider Pride.
I take a little offence to that as that is a Saskatchewan term and is used in Saskatchewan on a regular basis.
I may not be from Ottawa but I still pay into the CFL thus giving me a say in why I would not want another team with the same name in the league.
rpaege is winning the debate based on evidence provided.

Count me in! I had season tickets for the Renegades since their inception and will easily be separated from my cash if someone else comes along to revive the team. Even if their name is Gleiberman!

CFL in Ottawa in 2010

We have a few things going on regarding this very same problem. the Ottawa fans are quite aware of the need for the CFL and the City to get together. Thanks for your post it was very good.

Thank you Ripley, you're welcome. Nobody wants to see a team in Ottawa again more than I do. I sincerely hope all your efforts are fruitful in the near future.

Thankyou for saying SOME Ottawa fans… There are a lot of fans in Ottawa who really do not know what to do or how to express themselves, a lot of them are angry and have walked away but, when push comes to shove, they will come back. some of us are working behind the scenes on various projects for the City as well as potential owners and of course the CFL. Please try to encourage Ottawa fans when they post and not degrade them, we are after all CFL fans in the end. Oh, and please sign the petition. Thanks.