O'Shea hiring dumb Bomber move again!

...right on papa! I know you've had that crow in your freezer for quite some time and that's okay because crow doesn't go bad if it's rock solid frozen...one of these years you're gonna get to use it...

.......Is it 'now you can say' or 'how you can say'....I guess if it's 'now'...Yes the cats have definitely improved after Creehan left ...BUT they also kept the nucleus of that 2012 D. and Austin was not walking into a 'rebuild'..And as of now we still have the nucleus of ours going forward...Wolverine...I know you don't want to go overboard on our chances for 2014 but cripes ..at least have a little faith of them getting off the ground..Guess you aren't as strong a believer in the changes so far...We'll see how that goes into the new season... :wink:

.....frozen or ripe....it's going to be a hard swallow for some :lol: And no I'm not going to give the option of salt or pepper.. :wink:

how you can say it is, lol.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. The Cats didn't really have any nucleus to keep from the 2012 D. They kept a couple of DL including a couple of 2nd year players and Greg Peach who they dumped midway through the season, they kept 2 of 3 starting LBs, but then dumped Knowlton early in the season. 3 out of the 5 starters in the secondary were new, including prized FA James Patrick in one spot but dumped him early on in favour of another equally new player. The only nucleus from Cortez's team that Austin kept ended up being Jamall Johnson, Dee Webb, and Brandon Boudreaux. By the end of the season, after we picked up Bo Smith and Greg Peach, we had almost as many 2012 Ticat defensive starters as they did.

I have some faith in the team, don't get me wrong papazoola. I don't agree with all the other jackals crowing about how bad the GM, HC, and rumored co-ordinator coaches decisions have been. I really like the changes the team has made thus far, both at the management level and in hiring O'Shea. But last season was a slap upside the head in terms of optimism vs realism and from where I sit these changes thus far aren't enough to make us a 9 or 10 win team... yet.

Sticking with the Hamilton example, the Ticats made significant changes on their D and it paid off as they were able to help the team get to the Grey Cup. But Hamilton has drafted better than we have and were able to add by my count 7 NIs from the 2012 and 2013 drafts to their team that all played some role for them. That's huge. We won't have that same influx in NI talent to elevate us unless we spend heavily and aggressively on NI talent and it will be a tougher market than usual this year. I'm more than willing to be surprised and have things work out better than I expect. I'll happily admit to being wrong then :slight_smile:

Most likely he'll be a better judge of Canadian talent than those who they've had recently and should have the connections to find same. Between him and Walters they should be able to find talented Canadians. And Canadian talent is what's needed to win in this league. There's always a lot of Import talent to be had.

Surest way for a HC to fail is to just “coach not to lose”. Say what you want about O’Shea, but I guarantee he’ll never coach scared. Three & four years ago his ST units were the ultimate riverboat gamblers. He coaches just like you’d expect from a MLB - - hard nosed and aggressive. Seemed like every game he had a new play drawn up that would be a huge momentum changer on ST. I recall one game in Saskatchewan when Toronto ran a fake put from their own end zone. That’s exactly the kind of approach you need to be a successful HC.

As for Toronto’s ST struggling recently, you’ve got to go a bit deeper than just looking at the box score and formulating your analysis off that. Take a look at how many different players saw action on the Argo defence this year. Might not seem like a big deal to be constantly changing up second string DLinemen and third string LBs, but it’s the second string guys that are the heart of ST units. When you’re constantly trying to teach new guys blocking & cover schemes it’s impossible to have any continuity on ST. It’s amazing that O’Shea was able to get what he did out of such a patchwork on STs.

I never hesitate to call out a stupid decision, but at the same time I’ll always give credit when due - - and in this case credit Winnipeg for a very good choice at HC. Of the teams that have brought in new HCs this off season, the Bombers have gotten the best hire.

More than scouting NI talent, the biggest advantage Winnipeg will have with O'Shea is that he won't have the typical bias against Canadian players that so many American coaches do. Coaches that have only been coffee fetchers in the NFL or photocopy gurus in the NCAA and have ZERO experience in the CFL are the biggest culprits.

Pretty easy to be successful in the CFL - - get a decent QB and the best Canadian talent you can find and more often than not you'll challenge for a ring.

^^^This is true.

A bias against Canadians? Are you serious? You forget that we have a NI rule that favours Canadians and forces more talented American players to the sidelines!!
We have had Canadian coaches in the past and I didn't see any favouritism for Canadians, did Bellefuile, Murphy, both Marshalls or Buono, show any bias?
I think they treated all players the same, except if you are Canadian where you are guaranteed a job over a non-Canadian.
The bias in the CFL is agaist the imports, the NIs for the most part are given second chances that an import would never get and many of the NIs are paid more than they are worth.

Ask yourself why we have the NI rule in the first place. If there was no rule then this would surely be the league in Canada where the players are solely American. Canadian coaches and players are usually an afterthought. Area 51 and Gernb are right in their opinions.

Mikem......It's the CFL!!!!! Not sure if your aware of it or not,but the "C" stands for CANADIAN!!!!! You are truly an enigma,you rock an Ti-Cat Avatar,a REDBLACK signature and have listed your location as somewhere USA at times!!!!! You are on a CFL forum,but as we all know you are NOT a fan,but a shill for the almighty NFL. I think maybe you should change your name from Mikem to "The Spin Doctor" with all your posturing for how great and successful the Bills in Toronto series has been,and how your beloved NFL is going to set up shop in Toronto one day.Just a guess but your favourite song is Over the Rainbow?!? Here's a flag,may I suggest you go salute it than maybe perhaps take a flying run up it :roll: :thdn: :frowning:

....Okay ...okay....I'm being a little over enthusiastic...Somebody has to be after the debacles of the last few years( AND I didn't mean to nit pic :slight_smile: ...So how do you feel about Ritch Stubler coming in as DC...I'll wait for the official on it BUT IF true..I'd say another important part of 2014 season could be at hand... :wink: Liked his defences and working with O'Shea might look good to him...Just a wait and see at the moment?? :roll:

Love your optimism Papazoola!!!!! As a Cat fan,let me tell you it is possible and can be done by your B.B.'s in 2014, I know that this is a crazy,goofy league and I'm sure others on here will tell you it can't be done,but I'll give you some examples from being a long time Cat fan of indeed turning it around in 1 season.

1960.....Cats......4-10-0-8 4th
1961.....Cats.....10-4-0-20 1rst Grey Cup finalist

1991.....Cats.....3-15-0-6 4th
1992.....Cats....11-7-0-22 2nd

1997.....Cats.....2-16-0-4 4th
1998.....Cats....12-5-1-25 1rst Grey Cup finalist

2003.....Cats.....1-17-0-2 4th
2004.....Cats.....9-8-1-19 3rd

2012.....Cats.....6-12-0-12 4th
2013.....Cats....10-8-0-20 2nd Grey Cup finalist

So you see,it is possible and can be done.Now go out with your new coach next year,and kick some Western butt all over the field!!!!! Good Luck to the B.B.'s next year,here's hoping you can turn it around,the league needs you guys to be competitive and IMO your heading in the right direction :thup: :thup: :cowboy:

.....true bobo...I forget what year it was...early 60's...Bombers finished dead last with a handful of wins under Bud Grant...next year they won the Cup....never say never... :smiley:

The year was 1964, Papazoo,the B.B.'s were dreadful that year and had a terrible season of 1-14-1. In 65 though they turned it around and had an 11-5 season,and went on to the Cup that year.......BUT they didn't win the Cup that year,they lost to the Cats 22-16 in the Wind Bowl when Grant conceded 3 safeties for the margin of victory.Ironically though when the Cats turned it around from 60 to 61 it was the Cats who lost that year to your Bombers 21-14 in the first Grey Cup to go to O.T. :cowboy: Back then it seemed like the Cats and Bombers had exclusive rights to play in the Grey Cup, meeting a total of 7 times between 1953 and 1965 including 5 times in 6 years from 57-62 and 6 times in nine years from 57 to 65.The B.B's won it 4 times(58,59,61,62)the Cats 3 times(53,57,65) :slight_smile: :thup: :thup:

I'd be good with Stubler if he's DC, and if Buono allows him to make a lateral move. Maybe Buono doesn't hate or team so much anymore with Joe Mack out of the way. He's a veteran guy, he's had some HC expereince, and his defenses have been pretty good historically. I think he would be an ideal type of guy for O'Shea to have on his staff.

....Don't know if Buono could say much.... When Stubler went from the esks. to the leos (the gang in edm. weren't too happy with the move) he just resigned his post and took the B.C. job...Wally would look a little foolish complaining about the same type of move...But you know Wally...the world spins one way for him in 'wallyworld' and that's what's good for me ain't necessarily good for you.. :lol: I hope we scoop him.. :rockin:...Now will we go with a 3-4 orrrr 4-3... :lol:

....Done deal according to Jim Toth sports and Bob Irving...Stubler will be the new DC in the Peg... :thup: Pieces are falling into place.. :wink:

Based on how the B.C defence has underperformed for the past couple of seasons, don't expect the Lions to be too disappointed to see Stubler leaving.

And on to if that, the Julian Williams debacle is also another major screw up that Stubler had recently.

In 2012 the Lions were #1 in 18 defensive categories. In 2013 they were #1 or #2 in 12 defensive categories.