Winnipeg fans deserve better. Dumb move again by Bomber brass.:oops:
MadJack says that special teams coordinators deserve equal respect with OCs and DCs in the Canadian game.
Area 51 says O'Shea will have a better approach to Canadian players and the ratio.
And I say that if MadJack and Area 51 are on the same page, something really special is happening!
It's not actually as special as you may think.
I do think Area51 is one of the more knowledgeable posters here; if you can wade through all the bluster there are frequently nuggets of really good insight in his posts.
It's just that he too often ruins it by his Senior-esque know-it-all arrogance and the personal insults he dishes out with disconcerting regularity.
Actually he's been a lot better recently. He sold me on O'Shea as much as anyone.
But I was trying to stay within the spirit of a Turkeybend thread here.
Being this is about the only CFL forum left, he is allowed to participate in... He is a smart guy
Hopefully he can pressure the team to bring in a QB coach to work with whoever the QB is going to be.
Sadly I see more of the same in Bomber land next year. Don't like this hire.
i 100% DISAGREE.
he is in the right situation. It will be good for him.
...no dumber than the hiring of an unproven Chamblin in Regina after a disastrous campaign In fact I think O'Shea and the Bombers will give Chamblin and the riders a good run in 2014...Can't wait.. :rockin:
Depends on what the expectations are. Teams that have rebounded after a bad year and firing their coaching staff usually improve by about 3 wins on that bad year. Given that we only won 3 games last year, that would put us in the 6 win range which a lot of people would call disappointing and a failure. Further complicating things is a move into the tougher west division where we haven't had a very good record the last 3-4 years. Then again, the expansion draft could help balance things a bit as more talent rich teams will lose a couple players of higher caliber than we will which may help narrow the gap a bit. Free agency could be pretty wild this year as well. There could be a lot of roster shuffling around the league, especially if the cap gets raised with a new CBA. All in all it should make for an interesting year in 2014. But as for O'Shea, I'll reserve judgement until he's had 2 full years at the helm. Personally I think a 6-7 win season in 2014 and improving to 8-10 wins in 2015 are a realistic goal. More of the same, or another 3-4 win season? I certainly hope not.
papa I am one in the camp of thinking that the O'Shea hiring is a good move. . .but surely you can't mean what you just said, unless there is a MAJOR upgrade in personnel in Winnipeg. If all you do is change coach to O'Shea, the Bombers will still finish last. . . this is just one piece of the puzzle here. . . O'Shea coaching the team we saw in 2013 won't have much if any success; he needs lots and lots of new personnel before you can even think about giving anybody a 'good run'.
Right on the money MadJack. Some teams that have struggled in the past it was just poor coaching. The problem here in 2013 were poor coaching decisions and a lack of talent in a number of areas. There were deficiencies on offense and defense, including QB, Oline, Dline was abysmal after Hall was sent off, secondary gave up a lot of yards all season long. There will probably be a lot of roster upheaval.
Compare that with Hamilton revamping from Cortez to Austin for instance, a lot of the pieces were there already for Austin. Austin inherited a good foundation on offense that included a vet QB and a good Oline. He only had to tinker, and most of that tinkering came on defense.
Given the amount of change this team will go through into next year, or that I suspect there will be, it will probably take time for those changes to amount to wins on the field. But I would certainly expect a much more competitive football team that isn't out of the game by halftime and allowing opposing QBs to throw up 75% plus completion percentages and 300 plus yards at will.
I think this has the potential to be a good hire so long as the organization is willing to stick it out and not expect immediate success. A 7 win season in Winnipeg is a realistic expectation
We're on the same page, wolverine.
Not unless there's a major upgrade in personnel. If O'shea coaches the same team as last season, a 7 win season is highly unrealistic.
Which is presumably why we now have Walters, McManus and Goveia in place. I may not be as optimistic as papa, but I'm happy with the moves in Winnipeg so far. Respectability is step 1, and I think O'Shea's eagerness to move quickly will help us reach and surpass that bar.
......Well I'm in the camp of 'quick' turn arounds in the CFL and they do happen....How quick will depend on the coach and a credible qb... We have the coach...assistants to follow....You can't tell me the Ham. team that went from worst to first in one season was because of the personnel...I would say it was due to coaching as the no 1 reason...They had the same qb. as the previous year and when Austin walked in the door...big difference...I'm not expecting miracles in 2014...but giving a rider team a good run is NOT an impossibility....O'Shea has gone over our personnel on tape and has stated that we have a lot of talent ... There is NO need for a rebuild...Where people get the idea we have shabby personnel is beyond me...All teams will have question marks in 2014...some more than others after the Dec. 16 draft....Burke and his crew stunk the place out and that is what I see as the major failing in 2013...Fixing an o line, which already has key pieces in place won't be a huge task...A few good players found by Danny M. sure won't hurt....I'm an early believer in who we have hired and the proof will be in the pudding as they say...Look for a BIG rebound for the Bombers next year...Bet on it..
...Not so....Bombers defence was on par with the Cats and superior in a lot of ways....You need to look no further than Creehan as the problem the Bombers had... In fact when he left the cats, their d players made a complete turnaround...Playing personnel in the wrong spots and the constant change took it's toll on the Bombers BUT the handling of the D players by the defensive coach cost the Bombers big time....The players turned Casey off and that was evident with his sideline antics...One of the biggest part of the D went missing after setting the league on fire with qb. sacks in the initial part of the season...Certainly there's work to do on defence but the right coaches and a few acquisitions will make a big difference... The offence will need tweaking BUT signing a qb. will be the biggest hurdle... I believe those plans for O are around the corner:wink:
...you tell those naysayers to back off papa, bunch of debbie-downers
...what do they know, probably going to tell you that ranking last in 11 of 25 defensive stats and 92% of the time sitting in the lower half is an 'issue' to address...and on the offensive side they'll probably point to the bombers being in the lower half 31 of 35 stats and a firm grip on 16 of those in the last place as 'disconcerting'...well you can tell them that the bombers led the league in punts and THAT can get you some serious field positon swings, besides everyone know special teams wins you games and O'Shea knows that BAM, hands down...personnel smershonnel, get outta here critics...
....You tell em Red....And after the 2014 season I'm gonna have a ball watching a lot of people on here eat crow :lol: AND i'll make sure I keep tabs of this thread and to bring it back to every ones attention... Including people who try to do a little patronizing :lol: :lol: :lol:
Say what? I have no idea now you can say that the players on the cats D made a complete turnaround after Creehan left. Half of their starters in 2013 were not on the Ticats roster in 2012 when Creehan was there.
But I would agree with the sentiment that talent wise we're probably ahead with what we have than what Hamilton had while Creehan was there. The defense was definitely better later in the season, or seemed so at any rate, after switching to more man coverage. The mindboggling thing is to read Burke's comments in the Argo presser:
While Burke must still spend time evaluating Toronto's defensive personnel, he said his defensive approach has some similarities with Jones.
"Chris's basic philosophy would be to try and play as much man as possible," Burke said. "In that regard, you have to be able to play man in the CFL to win so that will be the base of our defence.
If he thinks playing man is so important in winning in the CFL why the heck did he and Creehan have our D playing zone most of the season and getting killed doing it? So glad we put this joker on the bus out of town and his buddy Creehan in the sidecar with him.