ON kick returns_out of goal

There has been much debate over the Rouge, particularly on missed field goal attempts.

Should the CFL adapt the CIS rule, spotting the ball on the 20 yard line when ball is returned out of end zone.

I don't see how changing to the CIS rule is not a positive thing. The CIS rule is great. The point of the rouge is to encourage returning missed field goal attempts.. you can even further encourage that by adapting the CIS rule.

So wait, the CIS rule is a rouge is good for spotting the ball at the 20?If so i'm all for it.

No. In CIS, after a rouge, the team scored on scrimmages from its own 35 just the same as the CFL. In the CIS the difference is that if a ball kicked into goal is returned out of goal, the return team will scrimmage from at least their own 20 even if they were tackled at lets say the 3 yard line. Of course if you take it beyond the 20, the returner will get what he earned.

So in the CFL, teams will often concede the rouge in exchange for the 35 yard line whereas in the CIS, teams will attempt the return since by virtue of leaving the endzone the return team is guaranteed the 20 yard line.

no no no no no.

it's because it is Amateur Football. CIS is still considered Amateur.

they do this because they want to give teams a little fair play.

it's just like they have Mercy rules for minor league football teams that are being blown out 55-0.. and it's only the 3rd quarter.

and their knee down without contact, the whistle blows. it's for safety.

You cannot start changing Pro rules with Amateur adjustments.

heck no.

How about spotting the ball on the one yard line if a rouge is scored. That way every missed FG and punt will be returned.

Never understood why free field position is awarded in either league, whether it's a rouge or touchback. Field position should be earned.

it's the way it has been since Football was born.

you can't honestly expect to give each team a chance when you always place them on the 1yd line every time.

what would be the point of Special teams and the aspect of "Field Position" if you always placed the ball on the 1yd line?

Each team has a fair chance at the beginning of each half. From then on they should be rewarded by merit. If yoo score, then you score. If you establish field position and pin a team deep, then earn your way out of it. That's is the very nature of sport. Competition.

Oh, BTW, I would amend the rule so that a rouge can only be scored if the ball touches the field of play first, before going out of bounds.

what would be the point of Special teams and the aspect of "Field Position" if you always placed the ball on the 1yd line?
The point of the special teams would be to return the ball to a desirable position on the field. In other words, you play the game and earn your field position through merit, rather than being awarded field position by the rules having done nothing whatsoever to earn it.

Kirk,

I think the idea is that once you're scored on, you're afforded some measure of field position to respond from such that there's an equally fair chance to score as there was on the opening kickoff.

If after majors and field goals, you can reasonably expect to scrimmage from the 25 to 40 yard line on average after the ensuing kickoff or scrimmage from the 35 as an option for field goals, why not the same for the rouge?

If every yard had to be earned from the 1 yard line after any score, I think we'd see more runaway leads and blowout games. If some see the rouge as reward for failure, then surely missing a FG and having the team concede a rouge only to scrimmage from the 1 and subsequently concede a safety (2+1=3) AND turn the ball over on a kickoff from the 25 is definitely reward for failure.

Its just the design of the game. A drive starting from the 35 with a reasonably competitive offence and defence has about equal chance of ending in a FG, TD or punt. The kickoff itself is designed such that an average pro kick coupled with an average pro return leaves the drive starting from between the 25 to 40 yard line. The spot of the kickoff has progressively moved back over the years from midfield (where it still is in rugby, albeit kicked onside by the team scored on as is still an option in Canadian football) to the 35 to accommodate better kicking over the years. In high school and university football, where it can be expected that the kicking is weaker, the kickoff is usually conducted from the 45.

I completely agree though that the rouge should only count on returnable kicks into goal having touched the field in goal or a receiving team player in the goal area without being brought out of the endzone. However, the fan consensus for years on this board has been to keep the status quo on the rouge.

You make a good point.

If after majors and field goals, you can reasonably expect to scrimmage from the 25 to 40 yard line on average after the ensuing kickoff or scrimmage from the 35 as an option for field goals, why not the same for the rouge?
Herein lies the difference. The rouge, being only one point, is not worth all that much, and when you have strategies that concede a point, because being scored against leads to a desirable outcome ( scrimmage at the 35) then there is something inherently wrong with the rules of the game. I believe that the basis of any sport, or competition, should be to avoid being scored on at all times.
If every yard had to be earned from the 1 yard line after any score, I think we'd see more runaway leads and blowout games.
Not any score. Only the rouge so that a return is forced every time.
If some see the rouge as reward for failure, then surely missing a FG and having the team concede a rouge only to scrimmage from the 1 ...
No one would ever concede a rouge. There would always be a return.

yes, the minor league mercy rules and the knee down without contact things are for "fair play" and safety..

how the heck does this rule have anything to do with it?

it encourages teams to return kicks because as long as they get the ball out it can be spotted at the 20.. nothing more

because they know that most minor league teams don't exactly run offenses that are awesome powered.

they run basic plays and really simplistic offenses.

Exactly . It's better to generate kick returns than to encourage conceding rouges.
Also it helps dispel the notion that missed field goals are rewarded with a single point.

This is not about the level of play, of course the level of play is better in the CFL than the CIS, or even NCAA.
This return out of goal rule has been in use in the CIS for about a decade and it works very well, its not like the CFL would be trying something that has not been pre tested.
The more kick returns the better IMHO.

bump, PLEASE VOTE !!!

well said

I like the idea that a team can try to return out and a great play is made to tackle him on the 10. if you think the rouge won't hurt...give it up. If they want this rule in effect then the ball better start at the 45 if a rouge is conceded, otherwise you have people running out and making it to the 5...no big deal, they get it at the 20. there has to be consequence for deciding to make a suspect return rather than taking a knee.

I don't see anything wrong with the current rule. The only rule change I would love to see happen is that in overtime the offense starts at half instead of being automatically in field goal range before even snapping the ball the first time.

I like to see a good tackle as well, thats the point, Encouraging more returns instead of (a) watching a returner running around the end zone and then taking a knee_Lame and (b) returners being chastised for doing their jobs!!

Reward the return team for bringing the ball out of the end zone by placing the ball on the 20

Or make a conceded rouge worth 2 points!

Please Vote

Adopting the CIS rule with pro calibre returners might add a handful of long missed field goal returns to the CFL season.

Unfortunately I think it will also add a lot more plays where instead of simply giving up the single, returners will take a few steps out of the endzone and take a knee or dive safely across the goal like to avoid the fumble and get the 20.

It might well just become the Canadian version of the touchback except the knee-down will take place slightly on the other side of the goal line for the right to scrimmage at the 20 without conceding points.

I would like to see every missed field goal returned out but I don't think giving at least the 20 for getting out of the end zone is the solution.

Along the lines of what CaptainKirk was saying, maybe the solution would be to move back the spot from which a team scrimmages after having conceded a rouge. Let's say the 25 or 20 instead of the 35. It might make it more enticing to run it out if 1pt doesn't buy you a third of the field anymore or if the likely return is almost as much as the yardage awarded for the rouge.