Sorry about this fellows, but I couldn't help but to start what may be the last expansion thread.
This, especially after I heard the interview with Bob McCown of Toronto Fan 590 and Mark Cohon.
Frankly nothing of substance was mentioned by the Commish.
I know we have to give the guy some time, but he appears to be
"all talk and no substance."
He mentioned how the window of negotiation with the Palmer group had expired. He did not dispute the suggestion how this group was not well off with the $.
Supposedly there are other interesting paries, but no names.
The process will be long and Mark wants to meet with the Ottawa mayor and people in Halifax to gage their interest.
After this, I am really starting to wonder whether we will ever see expansion again.
It may be neck and neck, either the Leafs winning the cup prior to the next CFL expansion.
Neither will occur.

Leafs winning the cup...Oh no, cruel and unusual punishment.

I think I could take,






Okay, I could take another expansion topic over the Leafs winning the cup. There, I said it! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Oh, oh, theres that red Head with the strait jacket again! :wink:

the CFL will expand, question is when.

Considering there is really only 1 Suitable CFL stadium in Canada that is not in a CFL city and that's Frank Clair stadium. Which is old, charges CFL tenants wayyy to much.

it would take a city to step up any either up their capacity/stadium(like PEPS stadium in Quebec City)

Build a new stadium however the only one being built right now is Monctons 10-11K stadium(not big enough)

so Saying the CFL may need to wait until 2010-2012 is very possible, especially if at that time the TSN/RDS revenue increases a decent bit(say to 24-26M per year, so around 10M increase)

The Private Community will need to step up for a new state of the art Stadium to be built in:(top 4 locations)
Halifax or Moncton, London, Quebec City, Ottawa
yes Halifax would be Better then Moncton likely but all depends on who steps up

A major thing will be how the SMS works, if the CFL looks like a profitable league then people will be forced to stop all their nay-saying that the league could die at any time. Often what is used from say Halifax or Ottawa by some City officials that the league is not stable.

Should be real interesting if nay-sayers See two new CFL stadium(Winnipeg all but garanteed and possibly one in Calgary POSSIBLY!! VERY SKETCHY!)
And CFL attendance continues to go up, along with TV viewership.

Just staying at the current pace of TV viewership going up by 5-10% per year would be huge.

The problem barnes is without growth the 8 team league can become stagnent.
It can be quite tiring for fans of each team when seeing at least one other team at least 6 times per year when counting the exhibition and regular season.
This is not something that usually increases sponsorship, viewers and fannies in the stands.
More teams through expansion brings excitement, new fans, viewers and ultimately more money into the coffers of the league as a whole.

You make it sound like the league doesnt want to expand!
Im sure they do but it always boils down to the same problem.
In order to expand you need someone who wants to invest.

very true, but don't forget how much worse it is when you have rapid expansion like the whole failed american experiment.

The goal of the CFL should be to become 10 teams with eyes of eventually 12.

But right now just 10. But new stadiums are needed regardless.
Ottawa stadium is.. not cutting it.
It may take a few years but the league will get into another city, it would be nice to change from Ottawa and See someone step up in Quebec City or Altantic Canada.

But the league isn't Stagnant right now, the Support by the younger ages is much much higher then it was 10 years ago, Football has become Popular atleast in Quebec and Manitoba, but I also believe in West of Manitoba aswell.

So when those kids get older they should be able to support the CFL(looking at Quebec here)

A good way change would be move to a 3 game pre-season.
that means playing someone no more then 5 times in the reg Season + pre-season(possibly 6 with playoffs)
pre-season is one game vs. all divisional opponents

Put that 3rd pre-season game in: London, Quebec City, Moncton, Halifax, Kingston, Guelph, Saskatoon(maybe not), Victoria.
MAYBE(Several years in) Even northern US cities.

But just going with Canadian Cities with atleast 8K seat Stadiums that aren't CFL cities you have:
London, Quebec City, Kingston, Moncton(if it's built in 2008-2009), Victoira

5 options that can be rotates yearly(there would be 4 games)

There is always the option to hold multiple games in one Stadium.

something like a CFL showcase 2 or 4 pre-season games in one stadium. Since any stadium would need temp Seating holding 2 games in Quebec City and 2 in Moncton could work.
the games would preferably be the second or 3rd pre-season game for the teams so that the host Cities get to see some CFL stars play for much of the game.

oh yeah, I forgot all about Ottawa being a potential host City so that's 6 total. a 3 year rotation of each of the host cities of these pre-season games could then happen.(2 games per host city, 1 west game and 1 east game)

RO befor they opened the door to US expansion there was no one to invest. Then once the door opened, we had several groups of people invest in the league. Why was that and where did they all come from?
And no I dont think I asked you this befor,lol

all these people who think putting a CFL team in London or Saskatoon are nuts.

Remember also that there is a whole ton of people who think the NHL expanded too quickly into too many American markets. The best approach I believe is to be cautious and expand one or two cities at a time at most. Get a real handle on where you are going to and with whom.

Why is London nuts?

there is a stadium issue no doubt but there is a stadium issue in any possible CFL city including Ottawa.

Top cities for CFL expansion are:
Atlantic Canada(Halifax or Moncton)
Quebec City

As for Saskatoon, that is ONLY! ONLY! as a 12th team, meaning there are 3 expansion teams before that.
as a 12th team they would be playing most games against western teams which is how their support would build. AGAIN! ONLY AS A 12TH TEAM!

Unlike the NHL, our league does not kneed to worry about expanding too quickly now that the American expansion is over by 10+ years.
If anything, the league is regressing.
Strategic planning by the commish is necessary to include a prospective city(mayor and team owner), its premier and the federal government. The latter two are crucial so that $ will be available to build new stadiums.
The league commish must go hat in hand with the mayor to Ottawa seeking funds to build.
What other league can say how it is a binding unifying force from coast to coast.
The CFL is it; as NHL hockey has been sold out years ago to the Americans.
If Toronto and MLSE can get $60+M to build a crappy 20,000 seat soccer only stadium, then two cities, especially if one is in Quebec, can do better if not the same.

Ok, I was recently pondering expansion... lol and I'm sure can't WAIT to hear what I came up with.

I think there's only 12 cities in Canada capable of supporting their own CFL franchises. The current 8, plus Ottawa, QC, Halifax, and London.

That's the 12 teams that everyone seems longing to get to. Unfortunatly, with the set up, there'd be 5 in the west (BC, Calgary, Edmonton, Saskatchewan, and Winnipeg) but 7 in the east (London, Hamilton, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, Quebec City, and Halifax). People have floated the idea about London playing in the west, but that's not really fair. Along with the added travel expenses, the inability to build regional rivalries with Hamilton or Toronto could be fatal to a young franchise. (Please don't say it's fair since Winnipeg had to play in the East, they're much more established and can survive that kind of temporary pain in the ass).

So how 'bout this:

12 teams in the CFL, so 8 make the playoffs. What if the 4 best in the east and 3 best in the west be guaranteed a playoff spot while final spot in the west goes to the best out of the remaining five teams, West or East.

After that, and here I am taking a side... I, dmont... am IN FAVOUR of AMERICAN EXPANSION. But only after the CFL makes it into the aforementioned 12 Canadian markets, and there has to be a non-import rule that doesn't give the American teams an unfair advantage. For example, suppose teams turn up in Portland and Montana. The Portland team would have to fill its non-import quota with players that are from either Oregon or Montana. If the pool of players is around a seventh the size of the Canadian pool, there shouldn't be any competitiveness issues.

So that being said, I think the magic number of CFL franchises is 14: 12 Canadian teams, 2 American, with both American teams playing in the west.

The two American teams would have to enter at the same time to build a rivalry right off the bat. It worked so well in the NBA with the Raptors and Grizzlies... and in MLB with the Jays and Expos... wait a minute... ah screw history, two American teams, enter at the same time, final answer!

Judging by the size of Regina there are several other cities in Canada which could possibly support a team. Such as Kitchener, St. Catherines, Victoria, Windsor and Oshawa.

I'm also pretty sure that if any of the above cities actually got it together to build a stadium and get a team, it would wake Ottawa out of it's apathy and they would demand a decent stadium too.

I really like your idea of US based teams using a non-import rule which limits them to players in a defined region or State, but I'm not sure that would be constitutional.

The 'riders survive because it is Saskatchewan's ONLY professional sport. The entire province is nuts about the team except for the weirdos. The same thing is true with the 'Bombers. It is Manitoba's team and not just Winnipeg's.
Also, because there are so many ex-patriot Saskatchewan people living throughout Canada, they also draw some of the largest crowds when they play out of town. The TV ratings for 'rider games are generally on the high end.

I dream of a team in Halifax. If only some wealthy person or institution would give the tax payers a hand with building a stadium. Heck, the Irving's could cut a cheque for the entire facility and not even bat an eye, but that would be the decent thing to do for the people who made you rich and the Irving's are not well known for that quality.

12 teams in canada is fine, 14 Teams is too many for a Football league.

with 12 teams:
6 in the west conference
6 in the east confernece

two divisions per conference(3 teams each)

Instead of London, Saskamatoon or Thunder Bay are options.

Or London can play out of the west, yes it's far, but BC has been far from everyone their entire existance.

It sucks, but having divisions so messed up hurts the playoff format.

It has both sides complaining about things being un-fair, the schedual doesn't get to be balanced. there is a nice amount of issues.

Right now just get to 10, after that grow by 2 to 12 and be happy.

Any US would need a regional rule, they have an issue tough.

I don't get how it's illegal, forcing teams to hire people in their own city/state makes sense no?

Yah gotta love 'rider fans. I think i told the story on this board somewhere about the documentary of a school in New Jersey and the kid wearing the 'riders jersey :slight_smile:

I think Victoria (about 310K) could support a team. So if they were added and QC was added that would make for a nice balanced league of 10 teams.

I think the American players will like Quebec City. It is by far my favorite city to visit in all of Canada. It has a wonderful European feel to it. It is a beautiful city.
I have learned with the Quebecois, that a simple attempt at using French is enough to get a smile from them and they usually switch to English for me... if you just start jawing at them in English arrogantly expecting them to know it, just because that is what you speak, then some can get a little testy.
Another thing about Quebec... Damn are the ladies fine!!! by far the most beautiful women in all of Canada and lots of them. Even David Letterman calls Montreal "the City of Beautiful Women" and I cannot agree with him more. Maybe that is why Scott Flory whinned his way back to Montreal after the 'riders signed him as a free agent? (it will be fine, they now have Chris Best because of the trade)


QBC, OTT in 2009.

I just hope London or Halifax or Moncton have a stadium in case Ottawa should fail then they can get that team. lol.

although I believe the Stadium situation is doomed to fail in Ottawa.
Low boxes + low concessions revenue + inability get stadium sponsorship.

Bad Combination that means losses of well over a Million(possibly past 2M) in revenues yearly.

Although if Fans came out and supported the team(More then the Gades got in their first year) the team can live.

But if it's true and they get no or very low concessions money from the Aramark deal + pay more for Frank Claire then the Argos do for Skydome per year, a team in Ottawa is likely to die in that situation(IMO, some reasons why a new stadium is needed)

Victoria cannot support a team. They have zero by way of facilities and their population is filled with people in the the 0-18, and 65-100 age brackets. Not to mention a lame corporate base. Kelowna will get the second BC team before Victoria ever will.

I'm not so sure about that.

The population of greater Victoria is three times that of Kelowna.

They just need a stadium - nothing new there, so does every other potential CFL city.

U of V is there and so is the Naval base. There is also a good mix of industry and its economy is booming.

Demographically, the largest single age group is 35-54, followed by 19-34. So the old age thing is a mostly a myth. (Source: Statistics Canada, Census, 2001.)

Both Seattle and Vancouver are a ferry ride close too.

It would be a fantastic natural rival for the lions.