"North American Experts"

Hi y'all.

I keep hearing Bob talk about experts that are on side with the East Mountain location.

Anyone know what specific reports or experts he's talking about?

Bob Young didn't pick the East Mountain, Michael Fenn is the one who spotted the EM location. As for Bob's people I don't know who they are but apparently there are 10 locations that would be better then west harbor.

Dr. Bernie Mullen, Denis Braham and Brian Cooper are the experts listed in Bob Young's "Go East Mountain" .pdf. No real mention of how indepth their appraisal of either site was other than to say that they didn't think the West Harbour would work.

My problem with "experts" is, if you need to, you can find someone to tell you the sky is green. How impartial are the experts working for the city and those working for Mr. Young. You could have one group of people telling you something is a brilliant idea and another telling you it's the worst. Objectivity is an issue here... the gentlemen mentioned in the .pdf are mentioned only in passing. Is there some sort of document that gives a comprehensive appraisal by these experts of the West Harbour site and if there is... who paid for it?

It doesnt take an expert to see why WH and a Stadium dont work.

To clarify, won't work for the TigerCats business model which is to expand the brand or have the ability to expand the brand in the future at a larger location with developers on board.

The WH will indeed work for a stadium and team that has no motivation than to get around 10,000 or so people a game and are happy with that and can make some money doing it. That is not the reality of a CFL franchise.

I would think by definition that the "experts" hired by Bob Young would be objective. Why you ask? Because unlike the city council (the morons who spend your money!), he didn't have a pre-conceived notion of where the stadium should go. He would want the best, honest advice to ensure that he doesn't misspend millions of dollars of his own hard earned money. The city on the other hand wanted the WH no matter what, so any "experts" they hire, again by definition would not be objective.

It's all in the timing though... were the experts brought it after the Cats had soured on WH or was this something done at the outset.... as it should have been done? At some point WH seemed like a good idea to the Cats... when did it not become a good idea. I'm hearing of locations that make "economic sense" and that the "WH" was just a placeholder until something else could be thought up. Why would the city go through the whole bid process with their main Pan Am asset location as nothing more than a placeholder. Why would the Cats wait until very late in the game to discover that WH didn't make economic sense? Shouldn't this legion of experts have been employed from day one? That is the one thing that irks me about this whole thing... I'm a big Cats fan and I want them to stay but the team was positively wishy washy in the planning stages of WH and now they've become somewhat belligerant.

WRONG...Since the process started the Ticats, AFTER DOING THE STUDY have said WH won't work!

Here we go, another first time poster needing to get caught up on the debate! :roll:

My opinion is that the Cats were hoodwinked and blindsided by council’s bad faith. They were slow to pick up the blitz, but Bob Young is an honorable buissiness man, dealing with slime is obviously not his strong suit.


Perhaps you should read this interview with Bob:

[url=http://www.bayobserver.ca/articles/QandA_with_bob_young.html]http://www.bayobserver.ca/articles/Qand ... young.html[/url]

It was posted in this thread:


Some answers to your questions might be found here.

What has to be realized is that WH is a mistake for a CFL size stadium. Maybe the TiCats didnt realize this up front and when they did, they felt panic and then they felt trapped. Council / Fred never allowed the talks to truly become open enough or honest enough and IMO it left Bob Young without any other recourse.

Best thing now for Hamilton is a Hostco rejection.

I think this deserves the following: :thup: :thup: :thup: (even though, technically at least, I only have 2 thumbs).

I agree entirely… I think it would be a disaster to move ahead with the WH as the situation stands today. The vote in council on Tuesday was a farce.

That would be my assessment as well. Bob seems to me someone who believes up front most people especially someone such as a Mayor of a large city would be on the "up and up" and unless you prove me otherwise, I'll take your word for it, word that we will have honest and truthful negotiations.

But Fred is foxie, that much I will say for him, and once it became apparent that he was even lower than foxie, and Bob held on as long as he could trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, then it all had to change.

Without the Ticats, I think there is zero chance of Hostco approving.

Just because my post count indicates I don’t live on this board doesn’t mean I haven’t followed the debate. Your sentence doesn’t make sense… when was this study completed? Did they whisper their reservations? One of the standout moments at the council vote the other day was when one of the councillors who sat on the PanAm bid committee couldn’t believe the Ticats weren’t anything but elated with the WH site… seeing as how a Ticat rep was sitting beside him during the whole bid process. There is some disconnect here… if the Cats didn’t like WH they didn’t verbalize it with any urgency.

goshikisen, the Tiger Cats paid for, and have, a detailed West Harbour site appraisal.

I don't believe that Ticats did, or should have shown the City the full details.

The site selection process was a complete sham.

The Tiger Cats knew right away that the City wouldn't act
on their advice because they weren't even named as advisers.

The Tiger Cats paid for their experts' advice, the City
doesn't deserve to see it until Ian Troop shows it to them.

HostCo CEO Ian Troop will first ask the City...where is your business plan?

and where is your partner to help you carry it out?

Then he can show them the Tiger Cats business plan for the East Mountain.

[Hopefully, it actually shows that a stadium there is "doable" economically.]

and inform the City that the Tiger Cat's business partner is Osmington

and he will also show the City the Tiger Cat research which shows
that the Rheem factory site makes the worst business sense of all.

I hope you right slowdrive!!!! :thup: :thup: :thup:

Wikipedia is not the best source but here'a some info on Bernie Mullin:

"British-born, Mullin has over thirty years of experience in Sports, Entertainment and Higher Education in senior executive roles producing outstanding results. ... Dr. Mullin holds a Ph. D – Business; an MBA; and a M.S. – Marketing from the University of Kansas. He also earned a B.A. Business Studies from Coventry University in England."

From the KTRE (ABC station in Texas) website about Denis Braham:

"An attorney with Winstead since 1989, Braham provides counsel to prominent real estate and sports clients such as the Dallas Cowboys and Houston Texans. Braham's work includes helping the City of Houston bring back an NFL franchise, build Reliant Stadium and secure one of the most lucrative naming rights deals for the stadium of its time. His strong background in new stadium development and financing was key in assisting the Dallas Cowboys through their new stadium process. Braham and his team of attorneys have also been associated with the successful bids for both Houston and North Texas to host Super Bowls, and he led a team of attorneys instrumental in coordinating the successful bids for other major events in Texas, including the 2010 NBA All-Star Game and the 2014 NCAA Men's Final Four, which will be played in the Dallas Cowboys new stadium in Arlington, Texas."

And on Brian Cooper:

"Brian Cooper has over 25 years' experience in a wide variety of executive positions throughout the sports and entertainment industry. He founded Insight Sports Ltd., a well-known broadcast/production company and built properties like: The NHL Network, GOL TV, The World Fishing Network, Gold Rush 2002, Ultimate Gretzky, and the long-running TV series, The Business of Sports. Brian was VP Operations and Business Development at Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment and was part of the executive team that created and launched the Raptors brand experience (an innovative blend of entertainment, sport and music). He was also President and COO of the Toronto Argonauts and was credited with the revival of football in the Toronto marketplace in the 1990s. Brian currently sits on the charitable boards of the Wayne Gretzky Foundation and Canada Basketball. In December 2007, The Globe & Mail named Brian as one of the top 25 most influential figures in Canadian sport."

Reputation is everything to these experts and the expert who rubberstamps what his/her client wants are usually discredited pretty quickly.

Bob's people never stated the the east mountain was the best choice at all. What they said is the harbour is the worst.

There are still a number of people out there (not in council) that still hope to see confederation park happen.

All we can do is see what comes from the meeting between the mayor and pan am chair.