No Yards in Montreal game. Yes or No?

[GHT120]

@"dcmoses"

@"depopulationINC"

@"HfxTC"

So the Als Player could and should have thrown a shoulder block at Watters and it would have been perfectly legal.

Yup

And per the previous post…it is only no yards if he touches it first. Say the kicker touches it then the receiving player…it is still not no-yards…there is no no-yards if there was no change in possession…ie getting touch by the receiving team first.

I know they can block, but can they throw a block to interfere with a player as he lunges for the ball. On a fumble that is a penalty, but does it also apply to a player trying to recover the punt before it has been touched by anyone.

It would be a pretty thin line between blocking someone and if they are close to the ball also trying for the ball. It would the refs a half-hour to get wrong.

[CatsFaninOttawa]

@"HfxTC"

@"depopulationINC"

Rule 4, Secion 4:

Article 5 – Interference On Kick From Scrimmage (a) A player of the receiving team may interfere with any player of the kicking team who has crossed the line of scrimmage, provided that contact is made only above the waist. Such interference shall be permitted from the instant the ball is snapped.

So the Als Player could and should have thrown a shoulder block at Watters and it would have been perfectly legal.

(b) The kicker or an onside player may not be contacted until reaching the line of scrimmage or until the receiving team has touched the ball.

Whichever is first, I'm assuming. If the kicker never crosses the line of scrimmage, he can't be blocked until the receiving team touches the ball. But as soon as he crosses the line, he's fair game - as long as he is participating in the play, and the block is above the waist.

So yes, they should have tried to block him to prevent him getting to the ball.

[Mark]

@"FootbalYouBet"

so, let me see if I understand this right

in an argo-als game, there can be no no yards penalties as long as a Hamilton player is not involved???

It’s one of the CFL’s special “secret rules” only known by select referees.

[depopulationINC]

I've seen the kicker blocked before the the ball was touched many times, the 5 yard halo makes one put some thought into it, but I really don't see where the grey are is after reading it for a few seconds.

[FootbalYouBet]

I still don't understand hearing "let em go" after every punt. Who has to let who go where, when, and why??

[CatsFaninOttawa]

@"FootbalYouBet"

I still don’t understand hearing “let em go” after every punt. Who has to let who go where, when, and why??

I think it’s the referee telling the kicking team blockers to stop hanging onto the rushing defenders (between the shoulders, of course) and to let them turn around to set up the return blocking.

[yougottabekidding]

@"CatsFaninOttawa"

@"FootbalYouBet"

I still don’t understand hearing “let em go” after every punt. Who has to let who go where, when, and why??

I think it’s the referee telling the kicking team blockers to stop hanging onto the rushing defenders (between the shoulders, of course) and to let them turn around to set up the return blocking.

The referee and umpire will usually yell “balls gone” to let players trying to block to be careful and also to let line players know the balls gone the other way…saves some BS sometimes.

The rule is that any player of the kicking team can be blocked on a punt after they cross the line of scrimmage, including the punter. And, since the defence can’t possibly know if a member of the kicking team was onside or not, there’s no special consideration for the punter…so if the returners are slow to get to the ball the punter can still be blocked.

The “interference on a loose ball” penalty that’s been alluded to earlier only applies on fumbles, blocked kicked, dribbled balls or wild snaps. In that case, if a player deliberately prevents a player or the other team from recovering a loose ball than the non offending team gets the ball, first down at the spot of the infraction.

[True_Double_Blue]

@"HalfTheDistance"

I’m pretty sure no Hamilton players were playing in the Toronto/Montreal game… I have been known to be wrong in the past, but I think I got this one right

LOL!
Oops.
Even when they aren’t playing, it seems I don’t want the Tiger-cats to have the ball!

[LeStaf]

Protection is allocated to 5 yards returner. Or, you can determine which is the returner as a team player who receives the kick did not touch the ball.

[robsawatsky]

@"CatsFaninOttawa"

Yes, it refers to an offside player. But there was an offside Toronto player within five yards of the ball, and there was a Montreal player going for the ball. I don’t think it should have been called a penalty, but I don’t see how the rule as written wouldn’t apply here. Just a bit confused.

I don’t see why there is any confusion. The 5 yds only applies at the instant the ball is touched, interfering with an opponent (receiving team) going for the ball BEFORE it is touched is a different matter.

[CatsFaninOttawa]

@"robsawatsky"

@"CatsFaninOttawa"

Yes, it refers to an offside player. But there was an offside Toronto player within five yards of the ball, and there was a Montreal player going for the ball. I don’t think it should have been called a penalty, but I don’t see how the rule as written wouldn’t apply here. Just a bit confused.

I don’t see why there is any confusion. The 5 yds only applies at the instant the ball is touched, interfering with an opponent (receiving team) going for the ball BEFORE it is touched is a different matter.

I’m just thinking that the wording of the rule is ambiguous.

(b) if the player does not allow five (5) yards to an opponent [u]attempting to gain possession[/u] of the kicked ball.

What does "attempting to gain possession" mean? Does it mean making a play on the ball before the ball arrives? Or is it attempting to secure the ball after it arrives? What if it inadvertently hits a receiving player who isn't attempting to gain possession of the ball?

I’m thinking “attempting to gain possession” should actually say “first contacting”.

[yougottabekidding]

@"CatsFaninOttawa"

@"robsawatsky"

@"CatsFaninOttawa"

Yes, it refers to an offside player. But there was an offside Toronto player within five yards of the ball, and there was a Montreal player going for the ball. I don’t think it should have been called a penalty, but I don’t see how the rule as written wouldn’t apply here. Just a bit confused.

I don’t see why there is any confusion. The 5 yds only applies at the instant the ball is touched, interfering with an opponent (receiving team) going for the ball BEFORE it is touched is a different matter.

I’m just thinking that the wording of the rule is ambiguous.

(b) if the player does not allow five (5) yards to an opponent [u]attempting to gain possession[/u] of the kicked ball.

What does "attempting to gain possession" mean? Does it mean making a play on the ball before the ball arrives? Or is it attempting to secure the ball after it arrives? What if it inadvertently hits a receiving player who isn't attempting to gain possession of the ball?

I’m thinking “attempting to gain possession” should actually say “first contacting”.

The latter I think. Another player on the receiving team who is not the actual receiver but perhaps an errant blocker or maybe Jim Barker wandering on to the actual field of play?

[depopulationINC]

CFO…post the rest of the quote, not the single portion of it that raises doubt when posted alone. I really really don’t see how this is hard to grasp.

(b) if the player does not allow five (5) yards to an opponent attempting to gain possession of the kicked ball. The 5-yard zone is determined by a circle with a 5-yard radius; with the centre point being the ball [b][u]at the instant it is first touched.[/u][/b]

[CatsFaninOttawa]

@"depopulationINC"

CFO…post the rest of the quote, not the single portion of it that raises doubt when posted alone. I really really don’t see how this is hard to grasp.

(b) if the player does not allow five (5) yards to an opponent attempting to gain possession of the kicked ball. The 5-yard zone is determined by a circle with a 5-yard radius; with the centre point being the ball [b][u]at the instant it is first touched.[/u][/b]

I realize that that is the intent of the rule, and is the way it is called. It’s the “attempting to gain possession” phrase, however, that’s ambiguous. The initial touching of the ball may be by a player not attempting to gain possession of the ball. It might also be by a member of the kicking team before a receiving team player trying to get to the ball (i.e. attempting to gain possession of it) can get there. Why use that phrase rather than just saying “initial contact on the ball”?