No Yards in Montreal game. Yes or No?

Late in the 4th quarter the Argos punted and Swayze Waters recovered his own kick. Murphy said no penalty for no yards because Waters was the kicker, but as he's falling on the ball Suber is no more than 2 feet from the ball and clearly within 5 yards. Can't find anything in the rule book online that deals with this. Seems to me the Argos were still guilty of no yards.

Anyone know what the interpretation is on that play?

I don’t see how it can be a no yards call since no Hamilton player fielded the ball.
Isn’t the “halo” effective from when the receiving team fields the ball?

Not sure. Maybe I missed something in the rule book. That's why I asked. Waters was legal, but does Sube still have to give 5 until the ball is touched by anyone?

Only to a Hamilton player when he fields the ball.
An Argo player doesn't have to stay outside the halo if his kicker fields the ball, same as a Hamilton player doesn't have to stay outside the halo if his returner fields the ball.

I'm pretty sure no Hamilton players were playing in the Toronto/Montreal game.... I have been known to be wrong in the past, but I think I got this one right

I didn't watch the game, but if this is correct, and there was no player from the receiving team within the five yard zone, then there can't be a no yards call.

so, let me see if I understand this right

in an argo-als game, there can be no no yards penalties as long as a Hamilton player is not involved???

I was reading to much into the play. You’re right, the flag isn’t thrown until the receiving team touches the ball because there is no infraction prior to that. You don’t see it often so it looked odd when I saw the play originally.

What I would have liked to see is there was an Als defender running with Waters. What would have been the call if you throw a block at Watters ? Is there a call ?

I glossed over the interference sections, but there are penalties. If I remember correctly you can't block a player from playing the ball.

But the Als would have gotten possession at the cost of a 10 yard penalty on a short punt... Seems like a good deal.

Correct…Don’t really recall the play, but the receiving team would need to be first to touch it for the no-yards to be eligible.

No yards only applied if the receiving team or an offside kicking team player touches the ball first. It doesn't apply if it's touched first by on onside player.

(c) if the player does not allow five (5) yards and the ball struck the ground [u]before being touched by the receiving team[/u]: PENALTY...
This clause, however, doesn't mention contact by the receiving team, only an opponent attempting to gain possession, which at least one Montreal player was attempting. (As the rule applies to offside players, the opponent is by definition on the receiving team.)
(b) if the player does not allow five (5) yards to an opponent attempting to gain possession of the kicked ball. The 5-yard zone is determined by a circle with a 5-yard radius; with the centre point being the ball at the instant it is first touched. PENALTY...
Anyone else see a rule that would clarify this?

That would be pretty interesting to see. Not sure I have ever seen that one. But I think that they can block any player within 1 yard of the LOS and beyond

Found it...
Rule 4, Secion 4:

Article 5 – Interference On Kick From Scrimmage (a) A player of the receiving team may interfere with any player of the kicking team who has crossed the line of scrimmage, provided that contact is made only above the waist. Such interference shall be permitted from the instant the ball is snapped.

And yeah...Section 2 covers this part...

(c) On a kicking play, a Team A player may interfere with an opponent up to one yard in advance of the line of scrimmage.

The second one you reference is for an offside player, not an onside player such as the kicker. I posted above...I think it clears it up a bit.

Yes, it refers to an offside player. But there was an offside Toronto player within five yards of the ball, and there was a Montreal player going for the ball. I don't think it should have been called a penalty, but I don't see how the rule as written wouldn't apply here. Just a bit confused.

Perhaps the "attempting to gain possession" only applies to the kicked ball before it hits the ground, with the second (c) rule taking effect as soon as the ball bounces?

So the Als Player could and should have thrown a shoulder block at Watters and it would have been perfectly legal.

Yup

And per the previous post...it is only no yards if he touches it first. Say the kicker touches it then the receiving player...it is still not no-yards....there is no no-yards if there was no change in possession...ie getting touch by the receiving team first.

I know they can block, but can they throw a block to interfere with a player as he lunges for the ball. On a fumble that is a penalty, but does it also apply to a player trying to recover the punt before it has been touched by anyone.