No news

This is not normal for the riders, there's been no news now for quite a while, lets have some good news for Christmas, how about, what's happening with durant ?

I read yesterday that the riders may have fired there complete training staff. Would not surprise me with jones ego driven choices. Need to send him packing with Reynolds.

Not may have but did. With all the injuries last year and it was noted especially to the hoggies they felt improper methods were implemented.

Funny you mentioned Ray as it is being rumored that he or Burris or possibly Cato are being mentioned. Lol both Ray who can't stay healthy two weeks in a row. Burris ( a real long shot) both are older then Darian or Cato yes sir re Bob doesn't that make you feel all warm and fuzzy.

Big speculation that Darian ends up in Montreal, Winnipeg and Toronto also quite possible. It would make sense that he goes to either Montreal or Winnipeg. Montreal wanting to make a splash with Kavis being the new GM and Winnipeg not 100% thrilled on Nichols ask of 450k plus I think some feel Darian could make Winnipeg a very solid contender.

Jones is playing a very foolish game of bluff and has nothing to back it up and Darian knows it. Darian I have heard also knows he can get a better offer out there then what Jones has put forward as feeble gesture to keep him. So unless Jones makes the effort Darian is almost certainly gone.

Always unfortunate to hear stuff like this...especially when it is a local core

I think that one needs to step back and look at the track record and ask how some of the bigger guys have help up the past few seasons though. these trainers have seemingly great results in hockey...I am not entirely convinced for football though....which is a shame because some of them left better gigs to get home. I know I look and see a few things...

  • Best continually injured but from what I have been told has never received much for new conditioning techniques in the off-seasons
  • Guy came in flirting with being healthy and never progressed to being able to dress...this is very concerning
  • Vonk was said to be probably ready when he was on the 6...they broke the rules and snuck him out for a look to see if he was because all other centers were down...he wasn't...the team got nailed for the SMS thing...that'll piss any GM off.
  • I've heard they have had really low contact with Gaydosh...really? this is not concerning...this is shocking.
  • How many leg blowouts have they seen...concerning...clearly something needs to be focused on for the big boys
  • JSJ was supposed to be shadowed...he is not
  • The coaching staff laid out some very very specific off-season training, strength and conditioning needs for some specific players, and I don't think a lot of those have been met thus far. I know it has only been a month and a half since the Rider season ended, but we are 20-25% through the off-season for them...this is a pretty big deal to a coach like jones...i mean he talked about it a bit in his season ending presser

....these are just a few of the things i have noticed/heard. No doubt there are more. I know that this training staff is very good at certain things...but I question if they are good with the big guys, i question if they are doing enough player specific things, and I question if they are adapting enough for repetitive issues.

Interesting article and to show where there is smoke there is fire.

[urlhttp://3downnation.com/2016/12/16/kavis-reed-charge-alouettes-target-darian-durant/][/url]

i have not read it, but I know ownership (the kid) is pushing for it and was the one that made Popp feel out a trade and also get numbers to him. From what I have heard the kid is way way hands on...it is a factor in the job being turned down by the primary guy...Kavis was willing to do as he is told ti get the job. In some senses Montreal has solid ownership...in other ways they are bad....conditions on staff and players for a GM....that is just the start

Jones has The Riders in a complete 'frieken Mess'!! :cowboy:

So Depop what do you think is going on in Jone's head? I mean the Franklin being a FA is out the window and sure he could make a trade for him still but at what cost? Realistically as I mentioned a couple of times Hervey want JSJ and our first round pick back in June and we had Darian under contract then, now that we don't have a legitimate starter on the team again Hervey would be asking a very high price and you can't blame him for that, so without giving up an NI and probably at least a first round and possibly a starting NI too how can Jones make a trade and still build the team?

There is nothing out there that makes one feel there is a legitimate replacement for Darian so again what is Jones thinking? The only FA is Nichols that is remotely close to Darian's abilities and he will cost even more then Darian would so that isn't a smart move. So what trade for Burris, Ray, ? What would that do for us, getting even older and having to trade for them?

Sure I get that Jones is trying to get Darian for dirt cheap but this game of bluff and everyone knows you have nothing in your hand is committing suicide in my opinion. I'm not saying you have to give Darian all that he wants but heck why not take last years contract and just tweak it a bit? I mean here is Darian's contract from last year.

So apparently Darian is asking for 200k signing bonus down 50 k from last year. Also rumor has it the team and Darian are about 100k apart on a deal and Jones doesn't want to give Darian big upfront money but more incentive base contract which is absurd to think Darian would go for so instead of being stupid offer him 100k upfront keep everything else the same but instead of a 105k base make it 125k leave the housing and all the other incentives exactly the same as last year though. That would work out to approx to 315k if Darian played the to the exact same numbers as last year, so the amount could vary a little with more or (hopefully not) less depending on games played. That would be almost a130k saving for the team. Now Darian would probably bulk at dropping that much but who knows? Make the offer at least and get some kind of talks hopefully started again. Perhaps the team may have to go up to 140k base but still it would be a significant drop in upfront money going from 250k down to 100k so perhaps that is the trade off.

I just don't get this whole thing of playing chicken by either side. OH I understand no one wants to be the one to make the first call as it could be seen as caving in. Still to see this play out or worse yet not seeing anything playing out is just ridiculous. Yes there is still time before FA but if there is any cap money left this year why not use some of that and give it as part of the signing bonus so it has no effect on next years cap? I keep hearing Jones and Murphy have a back up plan and sure they may have but honestly when you look at what is out there or available without hurting the teams potential to grow, man I honestly can't see "plan B" being a good one. Enough of this crap and at least make an effort to get a deal done with Darian, if he walks at FA with no serious talks, Jones needs to be held by his toes over the fire for not getting something last year when he had a chance to. Honestly if he felt he had Darian by the short hairs and he would be begging to stay here and Darian would sign a insanely bogus contract, he really really really misread that scenario playing out. That is something that if it plays out that way then Jones should be on a very short rope. You don't allow assets walk for nothing and you don't let your starting qb walk without at least making an honest effort to make a deal with them. If Jones goes 0-2 on this one he should have only one more strike and then given a road map out of here.

what is going on in his head...DD's upfront ask is too high...he needs to reduce that. This is not a first time contract to lure him in free agency...it is not present management's issue that previous management gave renewals too much up front

what else...that we are still a couple months from free agency so it is no mad panic...as far as Franklin goes...there was some funny business with the contract...hence why he talked to Moon on it....he got kinda hard balled by Hervey and screwed over a bit

DD himself has stated the numbers are not as far off as the media is saying...he was playing his cards to the media in that end of season interview and now he gets it...that won't effect Jones and good on Jones for that.

Jones wants a pricepoint that protects sms if the QB goes down and that makes room to pay #2 good coin if #1 is not starting for whatever reason...durrants offer does not offer that

I Realize that stuff depop, but what do you think is Jones plan B, Franklin aside. I say Framklin aside as I would be amazed if Hervey were to deal him to Jones. Hervey is going to have more than just Jones asking about the price for him so it's not like it's Riders or Esks as only options for Hervey and Franklin. On top of that Franklin supposedly has NFL aspirations so getting him to sign a longer term deal, if they were able to get him out of Edmonton, would not be likely. So to say they would be replacing the old with a new franchise Q.B. is pretty far fetched also if he will want to bolt down south after a season or 2. My gut says Hervey isn't going to give him to anyone before mid season 2017, to make sure on Riellys health and all. Also to say that Durant is pricing himself out of the market with his demands also seems a bit over the top. I'm quite sure Montreal, Toronto and even Winnipeg, if Nicholls doesn't pan out, would have no problem giving Durant his current ask and then some, so that's what the market is, not what Jones thinks it is. Again it all comes down to the question, what is his plan B?

I am sure he has multiple backup plans. Only way i would have counted on Franklin is as a FA...because the Bombers are idiots if they are not in on a move for him and have the picks to do it.

Plan b....maybe burris or Lulay, maybe Ray...more likely someone not already in the mix...there are a couple that come to my mind...i am sure Jones has a few in mind as well. If it shakes out that DD is in Winnipeg I expect Nichols would be a Rider...he seems like he would fit the O game plan very well in all honesty....laugh all you want...I think he does

As far as DD's ask...I didn't say he was overpricing himself at all...the full compensation potential is on the same page for both sides...but DD wants too much upfront...that is what I said. Knock the 200 down to 75 and in exchange for that the incentives get changed...that is the tradeoff. IMO Jones made an offer with pretty ridiculous incentives...and he did that to negotiate down that upfront cash...because it is too much for a renewal.

I think if something like a 75k bonus, 240 base, 65 in achievable + 20 in harder incentives was tabled by DD Jones signs and calls it a day.

As far as Toronto, Winnipeg and Montreal....they are in a "win now" condition....so good for them. jones is looking beyond now....something a lot of long time Rider fans are simply not used to (sorry, but it is true...grabby was the only one I really know of that did long term...i guess Shivers did to but he didn't have the money / parity). Montreal's desire is only guided by a fixation by ownership...good for them...and if DD wants to be the highest paid insurance plan in the league, have at it.

Holy smokes. If Burris, Lulay or Ray are Jones's way of looking beyond the now and to the future Riders are in a lot more trouble than I thought. Also Jones on one hand says, in his little interview where he humiliates Durant IMO, that he feels he can win the Q.B.'s that are already on the roster if Durant deal doesn't get done. Then on the other hand he says he needs less money for Durant so he can pay a good second stringer. Guess what. The ones he feels he can win with already on the roster are signed for this year, so what is that extra cash needed for the # 2 Q.B. thing all about? Not saying that I disagree with you or Jones's on how he wants to pursue this thing with Durant, just curious on what his thought process may be.

Mitchell Gale is a free agent as well and he may be who they need the extra money for ?
even though I'm not totally sold on Gale , I would like to see him with a bonafide O-Line in front of him instead of a makeshift line, as the quality of the O-Line is detrimental to the success or lack of success to the QBs performance.
as far as Lulay, Ray or Burris goes they won't come cheaper than Durant ?
If we have to land one of these 3 we are in bigger trouble than anyone can imagine ?

Depop, can you possibly answer my question as I know that you are a wealth of knowledge ?
how many players that Jones and company brought in, not counting draft picks, and made the roster were from other CFL teams, and how many were from free agent camps or found by the rider scouting staff ?

Yes...heaven forbid that the 2015 MOP/2016 Grey cup MOP should come along for a season or 2!!! that would be horrible! Only concern there is his leg. if he bounces back from that and someone wants an insurance plan, tough to go wrong there.

Same goes for Ray

Same goes for Lulay

you develop someone but have a championship QB who can lead a team.....that is looking to the future
Vet QBs are locked up? If you are looking for a contingency/depth guy with experience...this is the season

O’Brien
*LeFevour
Jacory Harris
Jeff Mathews
Davis
*Glenn
*Nichols
*Durant
*Gale
DeMarco
O’Brien
*And drew Tate I think has the capability of being a FA, and Burris has an out clause that he likely uses if he is not #1 going in

That list has a few competent QBs who may not be the future but at minimum give your team a chance while you are looking for him

Further...the way things used to be was your #3 QB got league minimum and your #2 got that plus about 10 points....that is shifting because of the dollar. You can expect to be paying about 60 and 72-75 now, so about 20-25% more for you backup QBs...and that is no names on their first contract. if you want a promising name like bj Daniels or Adams you are going to pay likely pushing 90 at the minimum....that might not sound like a big deal, but it is

They have stated that OL is the key focus point...something they zeroed in on was that they really focused on tackles in the off-season and not really on OGs...that really burned them when they lost both of their starters out of the gate plus vonk as their backup.

good question on the players....if you asked me 6 weeks ago I probably know rough numbers. It is also kinda hard to say in some senses...what do you mean by other team's rosters exactly? Including FAs and trades i assume...the crazy PR steal from BC...there were guys like Korey Jones (who was a huge pickup and often overlooked IMO...solid solid player)...he asked for his release in Edmonton during the season because he didn't like how he was used and didn't really want to be there...they granted that and Jones pounced on it...he really helped turn special teams around as soon as he arrived, and was solid when in downs.
Anyways...from camps there were probably 12-14 that are still around
other teams...probably 20 or so

Thing with camps is I think a lot of the guys they zoned in on never came down because they are exhausting other options still...yes they had some nice pick ups in guys like Cox and Sam E, but the full fruit of that will take a couple seasons. It is kinda like the neg list...you don't chuck out most of the list and rebuild it and see results immediately...even if that list was completed in say January 2016...a few guys are going to be out of school or just graduating this year...most of the real lookers that were already out are on a neg list already unless they are overlooked in a small school...and that is where the benefit of the camps come in. The Riders are getting a lot of attention from these camps and there have been a couple guys that signed on because they or their agent noticed a lot of the Rider presence with those or some of the mass E camps...you see all that staff and they get noticed...you remember that....that presence has made them pick up the phone and call the Riders before anyone else. Also...apparently the small NCAA schools are seeing it to...they are getting more calls from them now from coaches that are saying hey...take a look at this kids highlights...he did/is going to get overlooked at the NFL...good kid give him a look...heard a couple of those now to...that presence has such a huge benefit in the long run. The neg list takes really a year to get low hanging fruit...2 years for much substance because so many are already on one, and many of those on yours are fringe players...so a guy graduating this year won't be seen until late 2017 or into 2018...that's what you want from that list...close to making it down south...just missed. QBs take 3-5 years generally

glancing a bit closer there are about 18-20 from camps of which I would say 7-8 seem like they are a piece of the puzzle...not bad for one year of camps IMO.

About 2 dozen from other rosters...but I mean that includes guys like Muamba, Foster, G Jones...a half dozen or so not exactly other team cast offs to fill a void or trades or anything. Then there is a guy like Bennett...picked up in trade, sure, but a very good pick up...Guy, swiped from a PR.

Edit....actually missing some here...I was looking at the Marvin Golding doping mess and it donned on me that there were a few more that I believe were pulled through the camp system. The Riders had 3 promising rookies at LB this year in Ogbongbemiga, Golding and Grondin. All 3 show some level of promise, but Ogbongbemiga was at that point trailing for a spot. Tough to carry 3 NI rookie LB, so Ogbongbemiga was moved. in hindsight one of course wishes it was Golding this point in time lol. At any rate....of that set of 3 rookies 2 were not drafted and came through extended scouting and camps...2 show a level of promise to have the ability to play in the league for a while, while Grondin shows promise of being a guy who sees more than just special teams. he is very promising and a super find. he is a guy I see developing into a mccullough role

OK. I see your point. Pretty sure Durant will be back anyway, so at the end of the day this is probably a non issue. Was just wondering what Jones may have had up his sleeve. I actually saw one on your list that I would love to have back one more time.

I am not confident he will be back....but I am not convinced he won't be either. i think it would be a mistake to let him go...even at his ask. being gm is not generally an easy spot and they are rarely popular lol

Good Lord man are you serious? OBrien ? Who the hell is that? Jacory Harris? Jeff Mathews? Davis?DeMarco? God man yes lets go dumpster diving why don't we? I guess it makes sense when he brings in a qb so fat he needed a scooter to get to the sidelines. Come on man that is a joke and a bad one at that. Burris. You honestly think Burris would leave Ottawa and come here? HERE? The man has a nice gig waiting for him in television in Ottawa if he wants it and he is going to walk away to come here? You think Burris signs a deal like Jones offered Darian? Phhft highly unfreaking unlikely. Ray oh yes once a very good qb but now can't play two games in a row without being in the tub. He can't throw a deep ball from what I have seen from last year either. Yes Ray what a plan that is . Lulay isn't likely to leave BC and why would he? He has a nice gig there and to come to here? Tate? LMFAO now that is truly funny. I almost spit my coffee out when I read that one. Yeah the guy that has his name plate on the bench and his ***print worn into it is going to leave his cushy gig in cow town and actually earn his pay? He had chances to move on before and passed on them but the almighty Chris Jones comes a calling and Tate comes a running? Wow that is too funny.

So Like I said Nichols is the only viable one that isn't a major downgrade from Darian and Nichols wants 450k so a 100 k more then even Darian is asking and yet Nichols who hasn't won **** is a wiser move? Man if this is Jones's plan B then man oh man what a great plan it is. Look I could gladly move on from Darian IF we had a legitimate replacement or there was one that was attainable. Like I said look at that list you put up and tell me one name that is most likely able to play game in and game out and do as good as Darian. Burris? Oh sure he came in for the last few games of the season and played well no doubt, but can you see him take a beating like Darian did this last season and makes it to the end? I sure don't. Gale is not a starting qb in this league, he has no mobility, that gets you dead in this league. LeFevour, Harris Matthew, have done what exactly? Yeah right sweet FA. So again if this is the secret plan of the great and wise Chris Jones then God help us we are so screwed. Have fun watching another season of "training camp" Yes building for the future so lets sign either Ray or Burris who are both far older then Darian. Pretty fricken sad if you ask me.

i simply listed all of the FAs....the pretty little asterisk symbols would be the leading contenders...sorry thought that was obvious.

Would Burris leave Ottawa if he felt he had more opportunity for reps elsewhere...in a heartbeat....and he would sign about anything to get that crack...if he even returns...he wants every down he can get at this point. As far as his TV gig...it will be there in a year or 2 as well...but he would likely fail miserably at it as he simply is not the brightest star....I am also not sure if he would take that over giving more attention to his Rock Wood venture.

Ray as a contingency QB....why wouldn't someone want him?

Why would Lulay leave BC...because i am betting Wally won't give him a contract, and if it is it will be lowball.

Tate is one of the better backups in the game. don't forget that if he hadn't gotten banged up he likely starts over BLM...they were nose to nose for the job...I don't like either of them but that doesn't make it false...he does not "want" to be a backup, but he is a team first guy and takes it in stride...kudos to him on that. He has discussed it fairly PC a few times.

Nichols has publicly stated his ask is 4 and he called out the media for stating it was 450...straight up called bs to them...4 is his opening offer...i am pretty darned confident he would sign most things that gave him a chance at around that, or 350 if had less incentives...Like i said...he seems like a good fit for what they want to do on O here, and in all honesty, Gale might be to. He looked fairly good out there overall other than when he had pylons in front of him. As far as mobility...Glenn, AC, Ray, McManus, Ron Lancaster, Kent Austin, Dieter Brock, Tom Burgess....theres a half dozen QBs that are far from being mobile yet are HOF Qbs and all time passing leaders...there is more than one style that is successful and saying that a cfl QB "needs" to be mobile is a straight up 100% farce....some of the best QBs in both leagues are known more for their fast release...something they actually measure now because it is so important and something that QBs go to coaching specialists to work on now. In the nfl going back a half a decade there were maybe a half a dozen QBs that had a sub 2.5s release...now it is around 18 or 20. It is still a fairly new stat but it is becoming massive and is one of the biggest evaluation stats that has come along for Qbs in decades. Don't get tunnel vision on what a QB needs to be....in a timing route laden short pass heavy flats offense (like the Riders want) that release is a massive deal. If you are stretching the field more frequently it is less critical, but when the DB is in over coverage that release is what he is jumping a ball on...a tenth of a second is massive....i will straight up say that it is a point of concern for DD and always has been (I have brought it up in here many times)...though he has progressed amazingly in that area.