NHL in Hamilton?

I know there has been a fair bit in the press the last little while about this with the Sabres maybe, not maybe, for sale. But wow, the Leafs are playing the Sabres Friday night in Buffalo and there is a full page ad in the sports section today, colour, that great seats are still available. I know it's Christmas but the Leafs in Buffalo and this still isn't sold-out? I find this strange and maybe this really is pointing to a problem in Buffalo with the Sabres if they can't sell-out for the Leafs on a Friday night. I don't know.

I still say no. We essentially are the same type of town as Buffalo we rely on blue collar work for the bulk of or economy. With the down turn in the economy and inpaticular the auto industry we are even worse off then before. Just like Buffalo we don't have the big corps. to help sustain an NHL franchise. Let a lone a poor area for NHL and horrible parking. Can anyone see outside people wanting to attend a game in the eye sore of a downtown core. It's a pipe dream that i dont think will ever be able to suceed its a recipe for disaster.

It won't work in Hamilton, it would be an embarassment. You won't be getting $20 or $30 seats.
A very average season tickets for an Ottawa senators game is $100 X 42 home games
= $4200 for ONE. If a couple go $8400!!! Good seats just above the team benches are $200 each.
I think its even more money in Toronto. People complain about paying $35 ea for 9 Ticat home games.

Not too many in Hamilton can afford NHL tickets, I can't see it happening. I think there are going to be a few teams going under in the next couple of years.

First of $100 is cheap and would sell very easy! #2 People want the big league NHL,not the AHL little leaque! #3 Buffalo has a good team base and would be very competive! #4 Toronto would be the laughing stock of ontario! Better watch as the mighty leafs final get thier match as two towns are are always better then one! :wink:

I don't think Hamilton and Hamilton area can support an NHL team for 40 or so games a year but splitting with Buffalo might be the perfect solution on this if this is logistically possible.

100 bucks is cheap for a ticket but that wont be the top ticket price. expect over 200 for top seats and who is going to fill those corporate boxes those are the money makers for a team. It likely wont be a problem to sell the cheaper 100 dollar and lower tickets but very few families and people can afford the 200 bucks + a pop for a ticket. Even less could afford top level seasons tickets

The seats available in Buffalo aren't their 30 dollar seats. The 150-300 dollar seats are still available. It's almost a sell out and every game in Buffalo is like that.

They cap their season ticket base at 14,000 and have approx 4,000 single game seats. They are maxed on season tickets and have a wait list of a few thousand people wanting tickets. The season ticket holders also get first crack at the single game seats as well.

Buffalo is actually making money. They do it through cheaper seats and not spending to the cap like so many other teams do.

I don't see how you could charge through the roof if the Sabres came to play 20 games here. Look at what happened with the Bills. I agree that our markets are similar so how could you over charge us?

I would love to see the Sabres come to Hamilton because I am a big Sabres fan but they are doing fine in Buffalo and there is no need to move them.

BTW, if people love hockey so much around here, why are the bulldogs getting less than 3,000 a game? Because it's not the NHL? Give me a break. Their tickets are cheaper than the Leafs, Sabres, Red Wings and Tiger Cats.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I don't want an NHL team here. It would only be successful if the ticket pricing was reasonable but if it was reasonable you wouldn't be able to compete in the league. Owning a team is a business, you have to make money. Talent is expensive and you have to overpay, so who suffers? The fans.

Another team anywhere in Southern Ontario would not only survive but thrive. Hamilton may not be able to support a NHL team on its own but it would draw fans from a much larger population base including Toronto, Burlington, Cambridge, Waterloo, St. Catherines, Niagara Falls, etc. that it would do very well. Given the dense population of Southern Ontario, any team located in this geographic area would do well. I think it's just a matter of time as Jim Balsillie increasingly finds himself in the driver's seat when it comes to buying one of the failing US-based teams. The poor economy helps his situation even more--some of those American teams are bleeding their owners dry.

An Argo-Cat fan

Agreed 100%

I believe it's ineveitable, soley because of Jim Balsillie. It makes too much economic sense not to do it.

Marlies don't sell out in Toronto, and T.O. didn't support junior hockey too, so the Bulldog analogy doesn't apply.

I don't go to Bulldogs, but I reserved four tickets for the "Hamilton Preadtors" initiative. The morning they announced reservations were going to be sold, I drove down to Copps and met 3 others guys there. One form Cambridge, one form London and one from Guelph. The Cambridge guy had big ticket Leaf and Rpators seats that he was going to give up in favour of Hamilton Predator tickets.

The mistake is to look at this as a Hamilton thing, when it is a GTA/ southern Ontario thing, the most populous and wealthiest region in Canada.

Sure the economy is in a downturn NOW, but it will turn around.

I don't want half of the Sabres.

First of all, it has bee stated by Richard Rpodier, lawyer for Balsillie, that Balsillioe wants the team to play at Copps so that he can help fix downtown Hamilton.

Secondly, there is plenty of parking in downtown Hamilton. I never have a problem. I was at the Bulldogs final with over 14,000 fans there and I parked at a meter on the street for nothing. Same thing when I went to the WHO concert. There's all kinds of parking downtown.

Hamilton sits in a big populated area that are NHL crazy, that and a wicked rivalry with Toronto, its got to work big time. :thup: Can you Imagine Leaf games in the Hammer.

No! Frankly I can't. This city has a history of supporting winners. A new NHL team will not likely be a winner. Being new, it would probably get off the ground okay, but after 3 or 4 seasons, if the team can't buy a win, they will go the way of the Hamilton Tiger Cats with significant crowd and revenue reductions.

I don't mind the idea of sharing a team with Buffalo so that we can test the waters first. If this proves successful and the Gary Betmans of the NHL are retired or out of the picture, we might than consider our own team.

And we have been supporting the TiCats for how long now good fan. :lol:

My personal opinion is there is too many teams in the league. Instead of moving teams the NHL needs to fold them and get it back down to a 20-25 team league. Folding teams like tampa nashville florida phoenix would be a good start. I just don't think a team will thrive here as suggested. After the new car smell wears off just like the Bob Young ownership has now had to deal with the stands will be empty and fans complaining how much a ticket costs and why the prices are going up year after year. There is frankly no room to grow in canada business wise for hockey i'd rather see a smaller nhl then team keep on moving and being sold. This city and its surrounding areas arent full of big corp to buy the boxes and high priced seats needed to turn good profit. Big corp has and always will be drawn to leafs due to the fact most are located in the downtown core and well the name recignition of the Maple leaf name. How many big america corporate business have heard of hamilton or would even be overly thrilled to be given what would be considered second fiddle tickets. Hamilton will face the exact same problems as Buffalo. Cheap seats go but boxes and top level seats are available. Buffalo is supporting essentially the same fan base we are if everyone was that hockey mad theyd make a trek and pay for sabres tickets that in all likelyhood would be cheaper then here. It'd be a tough sell to even bring players here with the low dollar and well the appeal of hamilton we'd end up over paying and even just taxes alone that are higher on the rink and such will raise ticket prices

Um.. it's been stated more than once that sold tickets, and season's tickets and ticket revenue went up, not down.

What you're seeing is the cessation of comps being handed out.

As far as complaints about ticket prices, again, it's been stated more than once, that more tickets actually stayed the same or went down in price. It was a re-adjustment and not an across the board increase. It's now more in line wih the rest of the league.

There is frankly no room to grow in canada business wise for hockey
Of course that's an incorrect notion when you see the money invloved with the TML, the waiting list for tickets etc. There's plenty of market to be served here.
This city and its surrounding areas arent full of big corp to buy the boxes and high priced seats needed to turn good profit.
Again, you're either missing the point or ignoring it. This is not a Hamitlon market, it's a southern Ontario one. A few days ago in the paper I read about a Chicago consulting firm stating an opinion that any Hamilton NHL would be the third most valuable franchise even before they hit the ice. Based on the market. This is not some biased Canadian company.
Big corp has and always will be drawn to leafs due to the fact most are located in the downtown core and well the name recignition of the Maple leaf name.
True, but there are only so many corp sponsors the Leafs can take on. I'm sure there are plenty more such as RIM.
Buffalo is supporting essentially the same fan base we are if everyone was that hockey mad theyd make a trek and pay for sabres tickets that in all likelyhood would be cheaper then here.
Wrong. Buffalo is not GTA


[i]A recent study by Chicago-based Sportscorp suggests a second team in the Toronto area would be the third most valuable team in the league before even setting a skate on the ice - as much as US$600-million.

Sportscorp's Marc Ganis said he reached the number after factoring in what the Maple Leafs are worth, whether the market could absorb a second team, the general climate for sports franchises and the valuation of other teams in the NHL.

"Toronto is a unique market. Its size, its strength, its visibility its corporate base. The wealth of individuals. Just the sheer population size makes it a bit different," he said. "I think it could absorb a second team very well."

Other sports economists say hockey-mad Canada is better prepared to support a team than struggling southern markets, such as Phoenix and Nashville.


Well essentially it is serving the same fans a trip to buffalo isnt far out of reach for kitchener cambridge as well buffalo has the same type of cites close by that are like kitchener cambridge etc. outside of rim what large corporation is around this area they are few and far between. The money flows to the leafs based on the leaf name alone not fans being die hards. Where ever the leafs go they sell out. Can you say the same for Hamilton. Tickets will have to be more in Canada we pay higher tax on business land etc. Take into the fact players are taxed higher and we are paying salaries in us dollars at a lower rate. We as a town can support low end tickets its the high end we will have trouble with. Think about TV rights as well the leafs own the rights for tv in southern ontario so if they are playing they are shown. Sponsorship will always be given to leafs. Just look at the drop of attendence when the leafs or habs play on the same night as the bulldogs. It'd be hard sell here as well with the leafs having zoning laws. This area is Leaf nation even though i hate them i will say regardless they will always be put first by anyone with money ie tickets sponsorship advertising etc. It may even be hard to get approval from the board of govenors just for the fact the hamilton name likely would sell as many tickets in opposing rinks as say tampa bay. in the end itd just be moving a problem from one city to another. just look at winnipeg for example they had half the challeneges we have and couldnt succeed

but keep in mind they are talking toronto area the key word is toronto people will pay for the name toronto ppl reconize it all over north america. Toronto could better support 2 teams then we could one. likely due to the fact theyd probably share a rink with mlse large corporate dollars are there and itd be easier for them to get pass zoning loss. hamilton is not toronto in the eyes of the sponsorship corporate dollars and quite frankly to the rest of north america. Toronto area meaning toronto or mississauga being home base and the rest of the gta can and would support it as well as toronto. For the nhl itd be a much more viable option if they ever let a team relocate to canada which remains to be seen, but i think the fellow owners would prefer it and vote for it over hamilton based on the ability to sell the toronto name in their home rinks and the draw the toronto name would likely bring over say a hamilton name

All I can say is agree with the numerous economists, firms, media and hockey people who disagree with your views. I think they know better.

The talk hasnt been of hamilton as of late though it says itd seem like a logical step but the talk h as been if toronto can support 2 teams which if any team comes to canada it will likely go there but a new team in canada likely wont happen for a long time. I"d be surprised if Bettmen and the leaugue owners would ever let a team come to hamilton let alone the power the leafs have. The mlse would likely prefer toronto based on the incentive a 2nd toronto team could bring to them. They could and would pack the air canada centre and all the boxes no problem just as the leafs would and would sell those high end boxes no problem along with high end seats. To toronto hamilton is considered a minor league city and always will be id be surprised if we got the starved leaf fans support for a team here. leaf fans want the leaf brand and nothing but, and toronto considers itself a major league city which a 2nd team there would likely be supported because its toronto