New stadium thoughts/questions

A few questions and comments regarding the new (Asper) stadium.

  1. How long do you think it will take to get built? Is there a chance it won't get built at all?

(MTS Centre basically took 20 years to build, when you consider that the 'powers-that-be' knew Winnipeg needed a new arena back in the early 80's)

  1. Will the public have any say in what amenities we want in the new stadium?

(I'm leaning towards "yes" simply because we can e-mail Mr. Asper at www.blueandgold.ca with our feedback)

  1. Did True North (owners of the MTS Centre) effectively "kill" the St. Boniface Domed Stadium plan?

(True North apparently has the right to "block" any venue construction they feel would be a threat to them for concerts & other high-profile events)

  1. (a little off-topic, and strictly directed towards the Winnipegger's that read this)... Does it not bother you that the public had NO say in the location, capacity, or amenities of MTS Centre- despite $40 million of our tax money being used?

I e-mailed Mr. Asper a few months ago when he unveiled his www.blueandgold.ca website and stated that the $40+ million he plans to spend on a new stadium would be better spent towards the purchase of a 'for sale' NHL team like the Tampa Lightning or Nashville Predators. His response? "Why not both!"

I find that encouraging, but could he be owner of the Bombers PLUS part-owner of a Winnipeg NHL team?


Winnipeg needs an NHL team! www.JetsOwner.com

Nashville would be a huge Pick-up.

I'm suprised Washington isn't for sale considering how horribly they are(Attendance wise)

4 lowest Attendance team in the NHL are under 14K
St.L is the lowest at just over 12.5K

Suprise Suprise the bottom 4 NHL teams are the same this year as last year.(order of the did change though)

But on the topic of an CFL stadium.
It shouldn't take too long since there is already a huge private investment, no messing land problems(like for the MTS center) and the Gov(atleast provincial) seem to be on board.

The BB Brass made the right choice in Asper and the location is great, if it were to be built in ST.B, then St.James residents would complain, if at the EX grounds, we would all complain. I am in E.K and i like the stadium where it is, lots of things to do before and after a game, what would you do in ST.B, visit the HOG plants...lol.... location is fine with me .... As for the off topic, the Stadium will be ready for 2008 (they say), as they will start building around the current Stadium immediately.

jets y r u still talking NHL ur on the wrong type of forum. the stadium will get built soon in all rights considering its been picked asper is funding a big portion and we all want this built. most people wanted to keep the old arena.

no man post-game Drinks at Teasers man. lol.

Or you know the 500M$ development Canad Inns is going to build there is an idea. lol.

Ohwell Bombers are going with Aspers plan, only question now is Ownership and gov Funding.

I hate to say it, but if Doer is re-elected he may destroy the Asper plan and NO new stadium will come to Winnipeg.

Doer? doubt it unless it's a real bad deal.

The PC's will. I love how the PC guy is lying, it's pretty funny. He has said he's had talks with business people or w/e in Winnipeg yet Asper denies ever speaking to him. haha, same with True North. (about NHL business)
I don't see the PC doing anything to help Winnipeg except give us a big deficit, Doer will get the stadium done. Liberals are a joke provincially.

Are you saying Doer is a Donter? I think that that McFatty guy would be the best bet as he is a young whippersnapper that is interested in Sports in winnipeg.

Doer is against Asper owning the bombers and will not give any provincial money to the Asper plan unless the team is publically owned. Thus destroying the Asper plan.
I think that Doer in my oppinion attended the Grey Cup game as a pre election publicity stunt. Why else would he insist on lifting the cup up in the air. lol He lifted the cup up in the air and he did not even play for BC,lol
Doer has always been supported by tree huggers and you know it Barnes. Heck look at all the promises he has yet to keep.
Guess what, today I was in the hospital and do you know where they put me, IN THE HALL,LOL
In addition, Manitoba Hyrdo proffits 250 million dollars each year for Manitoba thanks to the Filmon PC government and what does Doer do? He steals almost 500 million from Hyrdo because he can not ballance the budget and they taxes Hyrdo for using the free water from our water resources and on top of that, raises are electrical rates for the first time in 20 years.
The purpose of Hydro is not to fund the NDPs lack of leadership. It is to raise money to build more dams to increase export sales to the US to make Manitoba a have province.
Count on Doer causing alot of problems for the Asper plan and the Bombers as a whole.

Lets back track and remember what Doer said about all the proposals.

Proposal 1: updated and refurbishing the current Canada Inns stadium at Polo Park.
Doer said : It wont happen anytime soon as we dont have the money to put towards it

Proposal 2: The New Canada Inns Toilet Bowl stadium at the Exhibition Grounds in Headingly
Doer said that he does not support it or the location of it.

Proposal 3. The 500 million domed Canada Packers stadium by Canada Inns.
Doer is also once again against this proposal whining that no one told him about it. Doer was against this proposal from the start hating the location even though this proposal would allow the team to be community owned.

Proposal 4: The Asper Deal. Now this one Doer was very quiet about until the B O D made their decision. Once everything looks like it was a go, Doer opens up his big mouth and sneaks up on this deal hopeing to win votes before the election from people who are pro community owned teams.
Either that or Doer never wanted to give any money towards a stadium in the first place.

Their is not a single plan Doer is interested in. As far as I am concerned I think its time we kepted the Blue and got rid of Doer.

he put himself in a tough spot, does manitoba choose Doer or the Bombers? The majority will choose the bombers, I think he screwed himself over.

Doer is a Bomber fan, Doer is a football fan. I'm more question Katz and this McFadden guy in terms of politicians(I know Katz is municipal).
McFadden wants an NHL team, but he hasn't even talked to Asper? HUH?
McFadden has said nothing about a new stadium for the big blue, now of course Doer won't support 100% Asper ownership for a 40M$ investment of a 120M stadium... you wanna know why? IT"S A BAD DEAL!

Asper needs to front 60M(atleast) and in turn get 55-60% ownership.
80M Funds, ok he gets 70-80% ownership.

Why should Asper get the team when he is putting nothing into the stadium?
The Bombers as a team are worth around 15-18M Without a new stadium.

The Property the Bombers are on is worth 30M without buildings just the land.

So the Bombers + land alone is worth 45M+$ so he Asper is getting a stadium for free basicly under that deal.

Does that not make sense how Doer doesn't support the Asper plan as is? how it needs some tweaking to get funds.

You are wrong, that is not the deal.
I think you should re read the Asper plan.

Asper is the one taking the risks, no one else is. The Bomber B O D even accepted the Asper plan. So right now Doer is the only one whining about it.

Let me ask you barnes, what does Doer want? What does Doer support?

According to you the Bombers are worth 18 million plus the land is worth 30 million. Well thats 48 million dollars. Asper is dumping 65 million dollars into this and he is letting us keep the stadium. If Asper is dumping 65 million plus dollars into this proposal your dam right he deserves to own the team after that.
Mcfadden dream of a NHL team is apples and oranges here. It has nothing to do with this deal or the Bombers.

Come on. I gave you 4 proposal illustrations and Doer opposed them all. Even the ones allowing the Bombers to be community owned.
Now tell me what Doer supports?

Let's face it BB fans, we all know politics and all politions are liers. Doer and Mcfadden, both are trying to win the election, they both REALLY don't give a Sh!t about The Bombers or Winnipeg Sports for that matter..... I love the Fact that Mcfadden (or whatever his name is) said he would have the Jets back here by 2011, i laughed my a$$ off when i read that, number 1, as long as Bettman is the Commissioner of the NHL, the Jets will not Return, it's all up to him, he would rather ruin ther game more and put a team in Kansas City or some American City.... Face the facts, it's true .... Asper should run for Mayor or Premier ... lol ....

Barons, you cannot count the 25M Asper is dumping to build up the retail area.

I mean look at the land the Arena was built on, right now it's a vaccant lot and how much did it sell for?
It's the same property area but much smaller in size.

Ya, he is letting the Community owned the Stadium, what Stadiums in the CFL aren't City/Province owned? the Rogers center, that's all folks. Even Molsons in Montreal is owned by the gov(Universities are a government service as 50% of their funding is through taxes)

McFaddens NHL dreams do matter, because he is LYING! that is the main thing showing he wants successful sports in manitoba and he says he's done all this progress to make it happen, but why has he not talked to Asper? If Asper said he had talked to McFadden then ok.

What's this BS? He's even letting the Community own the stadium? Well he better, if he funds 1/3 of the stadium and he owned it I'd like to understand the logic there.

But while it's Community owned, Part of the Deal is a LONG TERM + CHEAP Lease. How can that not be factord in?
The BB are worth atleast 18M(3M bank account + 15M team worth atleast)
The land is worth 30M(Barren)

Meaning that's 48M, JUST to buy the Bombers and current Bombers land. No where in there is it included the new Stadium plan, and retail development has nothing to do with it either.

How is he putting up all the risk?
If his plan was to move forward it's not like construction starts before Fed/Prov funding is started.

It's a Risk to build Retail/offices on the most desirable land in Winnipeg?
It's a Risk to own the Bombers in a new Stadium that is sure to increase profits, as Fans can fit in their Seats, there are Luxury Boxes. Right there is atleast a 1.5M yearly Revenue difference, add in the 500-750K boost in revenues from TSN, Asper is making money off the team + the retail/offices.
1-2 concerts in the stadium he can make pretty good returns on his investment no?
1 grey cup atleast every 8 year?(should be a 5-6M profit with no need of temp Mass seating)
He was on the BoG just a few years ago was he not? so he knows what to do there, there is no risk of him being lost at the helm.

Yes he is putting up 40M, but the feds need to put up 40 and the Prov needs to put of 40.

that means tax payers are putting up 80M$ to lease out a stadium long term, sell a team(worth 18M+) and handover a 30M peice of land that's leased to a city owned body for 45 more years(is it?)

Does it seem like the Community is getting a solid return on their investment?

Now if it's a 50/50 split on Stadium financing(Asper 60M, Prov + Feds 60M)
And Asper doesn't get full ownership, allowing enough community ownership just to:
1.Prevent the team from moving/folding.
2.Take over should something happen to Asper.

Then it's a great deal.

Doer will be good with it.
Why does Doer need to support one of the 4 proposals you showed?
How many fans supported one of those 4?
Most fans/voters will go with one if it's the best option, not necessairly because they like it.

They'll look at it and go... I really hate this major part but other then that it's ok.
that could be location or Ownership or Stadium Design.

Let's go through the list:
1.Refurbishment - 25M$ investment so canad Inns stadium can last 10 more years.

2.Ex Grounds - Moving the team very far away from Downtown(20-30 mins?) completely against downtown revitalization.

3.Canad Inns - Biggest issue is stadium funding, the complete understand of where all that Money for the 265M$ stadium(public part of it) would be coming from.
Alot of Fans Anti-St.B

4.Handing the team over to David Asper because he offers up 40M$ so he gets a 30M$ peice of land + 18M$(or more) team.

Now I love Aspers Stadium and alot of his plan, but the 40M for Long term Lease of the land + Stadium + ownership of the team... Doesn't add up.

There are other ways around it, if the Stadium is Leased to Asper for 1M+ per year and he cannot move the team or fold the team for 50 years(moving could be within the City limits) and Can Never move the team out of Manitoba(saying perhaps he moves it to Ex grounds or some place like that)

Hey that works, he then has to pay the City a nice Chunk of Change yearly though.

First of all Barnes you are forgetting some things.
If Asper owns the Bombers then all Blue Bomber loses are on him.
Asper has a right to make money off this project, any bussiness man will tell you that. The province and the city will be making millions of tax revenues off of this project. Its a darn good deal for the city and province. Your the one to crunches numbers barnes and your the one who knows that tax revenues that are going to be created from this project. You know darn well that its a Winning situation for the city and province financially.
Dont tell me that is not a good deal for them. The entire 80 million from the city and province will be paid back in 5 years and you know it.
Plus What 3 million are you talking about? I dont know of any 3 million in the Bombers bank account? 700 000 k maybe but not 3 million.
Next it was already said that if Asper owns the team the team will not be moved. That is a obvious fact. As I said befor, where on earth would you move another CFL team? Bradon? Who would want the bombers and where could he move them even if he wanted too? Back to Schrevport?
Bottom line is Asper is doing something that Doer has not done in all his time in office, and that is propose a new stadium and actually put money on the table.
Even befor Doer was elected in the Filman years, a new stadium was never even spoken about out of Doers mouth.
Bottom Line is Doer is a problem for this project and if the Asper deal falls appart, say good bye to any new stadium period.
Its a win/win situation for Asper and the community. And dont forget, Asper already pays the City a nice chunk of change already on a yearly basis.

Now onto the Jets,lol
Which is a totally different scenario.
Macfatten may not be a lier because the NHL is possible.

[url=http://www.jetsowner.com]www.jetsowner.com[/url] is a example that the Jets could work in Winnipeg once again.

Macfatten or however you spell his name,lol does not need to talk to anyone yet because if he is elected then there is a protocal that has to happen first. Why should he talk to Asper about it befor he is elected?
But once again, this is about the Asper stadium deal with Doer being the trip wire.

I am actually rounding up, it's 2.9M I beleive.
From the profits from last years Greycup.
From the 2006 Annual report from the BB:
The club ended the year with a surplus and net assets of 4.0M.

I'm not sure how they get the extra 1.1M but apparently they have that much.
It does Clearly say in the 2006 annual report from the BB they have over 4M$(end of year Balance was 4,002,355$)

So I was off, sorry the Bombers would actually be worth 19M.

Yes David Asper is responsible for all Loses, but that is part of any Sale of a company.
You don't buy something because you think it's going to lose money for you now do you?

No you buy it because you beleive it will make a profit. The BB in a new Stadium should do that.

How can you garantee the team will not move? Unless it's written Legally Binding way there is no garantee.
More to the point then that is Asper won't live forever, thus it needs to be garanteed of what happens if something happens to Asper.

Barons, you can't possibly deny that in 25 years another Canadian city doesn't have the chance of stepping up to be CFL ready.
Just look at the Massive Changes to other pro sports leagues in 25 years from 1945 to 1970.
NFL and NHL had Massive Changes in terms of their teams/locations, league size.

You can't say.. well CFL will be the extact same in 2033.
It would take massive growth for a city to be CFL ready but there is alot of Pop in Southern Ontario, Maritimes, Quebec City. who knows what could happen in that time frame.

Asper picked a nice time, the Bombers Delayed releasing their Stadium info so as to not interfere with the Grey cup, it has become a rather big talk and it makes sense why would the Bombers want to be talking about a new stadium when people should be talking about holding the biggest party of the year in Winnipeg.
They took too long, but ohwell.

Another it's not Doers Job to go seeking the bombers asking them to build a new stadium now is it?

For chunk of Change it would need to be Specific for the stadium, I don't Deny Asper is a big guy in this City and everyone would hope he pays all his taxes, but if he owns the Bombers and is in the Stadium he would need to pay related to the stadium.

I'm not saying the Jets aren't Possible, I'm saying McFadyen is a liar. lol.

He said he talked to Young Turks, that includes David Asper.
However David Asper has never talked to him(according to Asper) so how is it, he has talked to the young Turks if he hasn't talked to the main one?

That is how he is a Liar.

Philmon Promised the Jets in his last election.. he lost them.
Doer has not promised the Jets but has actually been working with Chipman to find a way to get an NHL team here, he hasn't done it on the front page and why should he?

WHY WOULD IT HAVE BEEN IN DOERS PLAN TO BUILD A NEW STADIUM? the bombers were Barely alive when Doer came to power in 1999. I wonder what would have happened had Doer Promised a team 5M in debt a new stadium?
Now I got a question, who is more likely to help the Bombers? McFadyen or Gary Doer, a former director of the Winnipeg blue Bombers(mid 80's)?

Haha, your talking about Doer being the key to the Deal falling apart like people talk about Bauer being the instrument of the deals demise.

the Big Issue will be Federal funding, a bigger reason why the 50/50 split works better.
Asking only 30M from the feds/prov works much better, if need be it can be 25M from the feds and 35 from the province.

I also do know full well how Asper plans to pay the stadium back, but fact also is all contruction creates taxes.

Which is why the 50/50 split is more enticing, the Feds/Prov would earn their money back in say 3 years instead of 5/6 years.
Simply enough it has a better chance to get by the feds AND province.
Giving Asper 55-75% ownership with the rest being community owned, allows a backup plan to be around and an assurance the team cannot move/fold + the property can never be broken up.

well regardless if we agree or disagree, Asper stated that he will NOT budge on owning the Bombers. Doer said he will not support the Asper plan if the team is not community owned.
I would say that is a pretty big conflict between the two of them.
Through numbers and ideas my way all you want , but that is what it has now come down too.