NCAA athletes get right to unionize !

How many “elite” athletes are losing potential earnings by the NCAA’s draconian rules? Aren’t the NCAA players who have there jerseys sold etc, etc, etc, … making incredibly huge starting salaries in professional sports when they (can) leave college/university? It’s not just the scholarship that is their compensation. It’s the platform for them to display their talents.

These kids are being trained and developed by institutions that get nothing of their future earnings. Just like a top business or medical or legal student who goes on to make millions … the school does not participate in what they make down the road nor should the student benefit from the fact that the school benefits from them going to that school. They, the school, has provided the environment/platform for them to seize an opportunity. And in these athletes’ cases … for free.

“Young men who should not be in University” … That’s the crux of it. The only reason that they are in University is because of the age requirements set by the NBA & NFL.

So … really … Your issue is with the NFL & NBA??? If these men shouldn’t be in University … But in the Pros … But they can’t be in the Pros because of THEIR laws/regulations/requirements … Then it’s the NFL/NBA you have a problem with. They’re the ones making these kids go to school.

Then let’s deregulate it all … Deregulate everything. Heck … Why should we make a person go to medical school to become a doctor/surgeon? The kid looks like he has stable hands. They’re skilled. No need for them to study or go to school. They can google it. I’m sure they’re naturally gifted enough to not have any training. Maybe they slept in a Holiday Inn Express?

Lastly … If your point is that these schools are profiting off of athletes and not doctors/lawyers/mba grads … then that is more of a comment upon societal values and quite frankly a chicken-egg question.

Yes … schools profit from the players that are currently playing there … right there and now with some residual future.

But schools profit most from the people that went there. Why are admission/enrollment costs higher at Harvard & Standford & MIT & Wharton (Go Quakers!) etc, etc, etc. Why are kids willing to pay top $'s to go to these schools? It’s because of the graduates they’ve produced and the platform/environment to seize the most sizable opportunity!

I played football, and I was good enough to be a starter, be drafted, and play after i finished school…all with a top notch education. If you want to call that elite, so be it, if you don’t want to, I am fine with that as well. Football has been the only “job” I have ever had, other than what I do now…raise my kids and make an amazing living via investing…an ability that was developed because of the education I was graciously afforded via my scholarship.

Most people that I knew in the system got “real” educations, like easily well over 90%, and the ones that didn’t were generally people that figured they would play some NCAA, then coast to a golden paycheck in the NFL…40% of those guys showed their attitude and laziness, didn’t get the game time, and lost their free ride, and obviously never went pro. Another probably 50% thought they would play pro after, busted hump, 80-90% of those guys either never got a pro shot, or were done in the first camp. The remaining 10 or so percent, yeah, they probably shouldn’t have been in school, and were there for a crack at making money…and that was usually DURING their time in the NCAA…see, a lot of those guys knew that might be their only crack at making money…but you know what, they still walked out with a hell of a lot better education than they ever would have had a hope for w/o that scholarship, and had an education that allowed them to do more than flip burgers, or some other lower paying job, and in some cases it likely kept them out of crime. I never ever once saw a single player who put in actual effort come out behind education wise. the odd idiot who took useless classes…well, that’s on him, but they were few and far between.

as for this:

Who’s stopping them from playing pro? You don’t need to be drafted to play in the NFL. I mean hey, good luck, but you don’t need to. Go play JRs, then some semi-pro, eventually arena or something…nothing stopping someone from getting there that route. No, they choose to take the smart route and do NCAA…and most of them wake up while they are sitting on the sidelines and are lucky to get ST time in their first year and take class seriously.

If you think there is some strange abundance of people who don’t get decent educations and try to cake walk through school, you are mistaken. They are out there, but not even close to the proportions you seem to believe they are.

As for my time and my school making money off me while I played…you know what you are getting into when you sign-up. Pretty much any scholarship candidate has a tour before they sign on the dotted line. I for one was more than happy and actually damned proud that I worked my butt off for my school, and that they made great money and got to use that money for continual improvement of campus and recruiting not only more talented athletes, but academics. College is about betterment, whether that be sports, a new skill set, academia, or just you as a person…I am pretty proud that the money they made off of me helped contribute to that.

hope that answers your question, even if it was not actually a question, but snide remarks
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It was absolutely an honest question and it really makes me rethink my view of things. Thank you for taking the time to provide an awesome reply. :thup:

Bottom line…Dont like it…dont play football and benifet from a free education.
No one is forcing them to play.

They are bing pay you know
Whats the average US tuition nowadays?
$50K per year? Then add room and food…We are up to 100K
Well that is what the players is being payed

What I will never understand is when it comes to athletes and their salaries…People flock to support them and their millions…But when it comes to a CEO and his salary…They are concidered crooks and thieves and overpayed
A bus driver goes on strike for a 2% raise and the people are in an uproar…Athletes do it and its more power to them

Or that owners get rich because of the players
The owners of the company work for get rich because of me(all employees)

WHY?

For me anyway. I don’t think they should be paid a salary but I think they should be allowed to promote themselves and should be allowed to do endorsement deals within a framework as you want to prevent shady characters from using them, If Manziel is offered and endorsement deal from Mercedes for example, what business is it of the NCAA ? Really ?

As for their likeneness why should they be expected to sign free autographs for rich boosters so that these guys can turn around and make a business out of it.

I also think they should have insurance in the event they are injured on the field as well as how many hours a week is being asked of them on the athletic side.

Bottom line, times have changed. There was a time when Olympic Athletes starved, now they make a nice living. A gold medal for Canada I believe is worth 500k from Petro-Canada. An endorsement deal with Visa seven figures… 30 years ago autographs memorabilia didn’t sell for thousands of dollars…

Sport is money. Thinking about the Russians when they were employed by Red Army and allowed to play in the Olympics as they weren't professional, employed or contracted by a professional team. That was a joke just like the NCAA full scholarship athletes are true amateurs.

Good comparison.

INCREDIBLE NEWS!

This is the first major turning point in cleaning up football development - and basketball will be next.

I told my friend at the tailgate last year “you just watch, in the next 10 to 15 years the college players will certify,” and he just couldn’t fathom it. It just didn’t register.

Well they haven’t certified yet, but this kicks the door open and all those rotten schools are shaking with fear. 8)

The NCAA is stopping them from playing pro. Because there should be thousands upon thousands of minor pro and semi pro football jobs out there that don’t exist and never will because small teams paying player salaries will never compete for fanbase with multi-million dollar, 100 year established brands NCAA teams with free labour. The NCAA is the biggest - no I’m wrong - the ONLY reason that the NFL doesn’t have a developmental farm league. Every time they have tried, fans would not give up their Gators or Seminoles to watch the Orlando Thunder.

It’s anti trust all the way and the schools know it. The NCAA is disgusting and soon it will be forced to play fair.

There will be a developmental system for football (and eventually basketball) that is fair, pays players according to their level, and allows them to play for as long as they are good enough to maintain that level (not just 4 lousy years) - just like baseball and hockey have done for over a century.

Baseball (and to a lesser extent hockey), were popularized as professional spectator sports and as such, the NCAA could not get it’s greedy claws into it. But football and basketball evolved from a college sport and so in order to clean it up, those college roots need to be pulled out and exposed.

Seeing as that was actually my comment quoted, not HfxTC’s…

It is not the NCAA’s fault that nobody else can compete. Is it McDonald’s fault that they sell crap food yet are the biggest player in the fast food business? Is it Google’s fault that they do not pay top wages yet their innovation makes great minds flock to their doors for work? It is up to other companies/leagues to win over customers, just as it is up to existing companies/leagues to put their customers and best interest first. as you said…the “fans” would not give up their NCAA team…that is competing leagues issue…that is the fan’s choice…sometimes tradition wins out. I don’t see how this can be anything close to antitrust against the NCAA. It is the NFL that has built and maintained the super tight relationship with the NCAA via the draft, not the other way around. It is the NFL that does not include other leagues in that draft, not the other way around.

I don’t think some people realize just how rich some of the NCAA athletes are with full scholarships and apartments free for those that are really in demand and cars from local dealerships who want their college/university to win etc. It’s pro all the way. And the athletes should be given legal rights to operate as any employee should even if the NCAA is operating how the Red Army was hiding hockey players who basically were there to play hockey and probably few wouldn’t have known a rifle from a bow and arrow.

That’s not my quote.

Depop

It is not the NCAA's fault that nobody else can compete. Is it McDonald's fault that they sell crap food yet are the biggest player in the fast food business? Is it Google's fault that they do not pay top wages yet their innovation makes great minds flock to their doors for work? It is up to other companies/leagues to win over customers, just as it is up to existing companies/leagues to put their customers and best interest first. as you said...the "fans" would not give up their NCAA team...that is competing leagues issue...that is the fan's choice...sometimes tradition wins out. I don't see how this can be anything close to antitrust against the NCAA. It is the NFL that has built and maintained the super tight relationship with the NCAA via the draft, not the other way around. It is the NFL that does not include other leagues in that draft, not the other way around.
The problem with most of your arguments on this topic, and likely with so many others, is that you presume a truly free market for those with football skills 3 years out of high school, and 1 year out of high school for those playing basketball before making your arguments.

We are likely just going to have to agree to disagree given your otherwise commendable, successful experience as a former NCAA athlete and beyond.

For basketball, of course a few players have side-stepped the rule because it is only one year and even played in other countries outside of North America at the professional level. For basketball, I think for the most part your point stands though I would wish there were no such stupid one-and-done rule.

For football, there is no viable minor league option in the US and the most successful one in my recollection, the World League of American Football/NFL Europa, was backed by the NFL.

The sports media agenda also has been outright against almost every other competitor to the NFL but for the USFL in the 1980s, and that united opposition did not even give most other leagues but the awful XFL a fair chance in the supposed ‘free market’ in which the NFL wins and nowadays obtains the dominant network television plus ESPN attention before all other television programming.

And so if one is 18 years old and has elite football talent and skills, it is a matter of under the table pay in the sweepstakes for a ‘scholarship,’ room and board, and various perks off the books for a few years for said players also called laughably ‘student-athletes.’

That’s the proverbial free market at hand but not without freedoms for the players only with the exceptions of those lining their pockets off the backs of these players.

And there are also NO rights to profit from one’s likeness whilst on scholarship, as if like you presume that is ‘free market’ for the individual even off the field!

You want to blame the NFL when in fact the status quo is on the NFL and on the NCAA who both don’t want a minor league for the NFL.

Sure that makes financial sense no doubt that both the NFL and NCAA would not want to take losses for such an endeavour out of which the players only would gain.

Now the players will unite to gain otherwise. That’s a freer market in action right there, but oh no you oppose that based on your experience in the PAST.

Maybe you ignore the money trail of millions in the hands of so many mostly off the field but the players in the NCAA, and maybe you think those who ‘earn’ those vast millions via ultimately the players deserve it because as you state correctly there are not winning viable alternatives for a minor league in a presumably ‘free market,’ but the whole of the NCAA and NFL or NBA when it comes to football and basketball is anything but a free market.

When you follow the money trail both sports are multi-million dollar rackets at the university level and have been for decades.

Now the players are going to get their fair share by any and all means necessary in definitely a freer market than you cite.

If that has you crying foul, you keep on crying because it will happen given that the stakes have never been higher for the players and members of society associated with the plight of said players.

Stop corruption? Hell no.

Improve matters in favour of the players and in disfavour of too many off the field lining their pockets? Hell yes.

For at least profits from one’s own likeness off the field, said profits should be placed in a trust while the player is playing such that the proceeds are available to the player and other selected beneficiaries once the player leaves school.

Of course making this happen would require some of the fat cats not being able to continue to line their pockets via the current racket for football and basketball in the NCAA.

There’s your opposition, plus their media cronies (I’m looking at you especially ESPN) in anything but a free market right there.

Paolo X wrote: When you follow the money trail both sports are multi-million dollar rackets at the university level and have been for decades.
Dead on Paolo. We are not questioning the talent and entertainment value of NCAA sports, it's fantastic. All people are asking for is fairness, and NCAA athletes deserve more fairness than what they are now getting as they are the ones making certain universities very rich, very very rich off of their sporting talents. The athletes deserve more than they are currently receiving and anyone with a brain at all would agree with that.

I think everyone agrees on that but the method and how much has zero in any kind of realistic plan.
First for the NBA a one and done should be gone. The NBA has invested in the D league so if HS players coming out and wanting to play pro have a organized league sponsored by the NBA.
The NFL for years with NFLE and other rival leagues have focused on going up against the NFL with players who currently are considered physically mature to go up against grown men.
The NFL and all of their money need to invest in a Junior NFL for players coming out of HS who are in no way at University to go to school.
NFL needing to invest in an 18-23 year old league for such players.
As for the NCAA there would need to be a fair share of $$$, plane rides home, etc. need to begin to focus on what a proper amount of $$$ a player should receive each month that alow them to live comfortable but not be rich.
The days of the NFL using the NCAA as a free minor league and Universities making huge $$$ from the football and basketball teams.
It will be a cultural change. Where both the Mens Football and Basketball programs do pay for other sports. There are now other ports that are making $$$ for the Univeristy with fans at the games, mercnadise sales, and TV deals with networks.
Womens basketball and mens Ice Hockey now are becoming more self sufficient and the High profile College baseball World sereis is also bringing TV deals to college baseball.
Also starting to see NCAA Womens Soccer and Mens Lacrosse also becoming made for TV sports.

Could we see, along the lines of coaches that do not teach or do research or are professors but coach university sports, players doing likewise, not attending classes and not getting a degree but rather there to play sports in order to make money for the univeristy? Sure they can go to school if they want to but aren't obliged to. Sounds odd though but then so does a coach simply hired by a university to coach and recruit.

I agree although everyone knows that there should be changes and the NCAA having outdated rules for players who play Football and Mens basketball.
There are a million opinions on what could/should be done but I do not see anything being close to a solution.

Solutions you say Steve?

  1. Unionisation of Players - Players are employees and should have the right to unionise just like most other employees in the US for basic rights to be negotiated collectively. It’s not as of the schools don’t already join forces via the conferences and via the NCAA, in that order, and let’s not the bygone racket known as the BCS and most of the bowl games too.

  2. Right to Profits in Trust for Majority Percentage of Likeness Off the Field - I describe this solution below.

Those are each two steps in the right direction, and I see both happening to some degree by 2018.

Who knows what the solution is but I think the players should get something more than just their education considering just how much money is being generated. ESPN pays $1.332 BILLION EACH YEAR for College Football TV rights and that figure doesn't even include the hundreds of million college football gets from other networks like Notre Dame on NBC or Fox Sports for PAC 12 and BIG 12 games and CBS for Saturday afternoon SEC games.

Over $1.3 billion - that is billion with a 'b'. And we think the CFL has it good at $40 million?