MSLE expanding into the suburban York region with a pro team

Well its starting to happen for those who said that sports francises will never move into the Regions outside Toronto Proper but here we are in 2015 and even MLSE realizes that Toronto Proper is just to saturated with top sports and other entertainment.
They may be starting with Toronto FC II but MLS has officially began an organized top minor league team for all of its clubs. Following the path of the NHL and MLB with AHL and AAA minor league. A path in which the NBA has also started down with levels of success early on. TFC has partnered with Ontario soccer and will have a 5K seat minor league soccer stadium. The The seating capacity that they have set as the standard. Many of the clubs are already building stadiums for the specific minor league team outside where in an area where the Major league club is not. Suprising as it may seem with Toronto having 3 of the big 4 sports already in town and number 5 MLS there moving out of toronto proper and into a new stadium. Stadium located in Vaughan next to Markham provides a base population of 500K with the Region of York up over a million now.
On the York Campus is the Rexall Tennis center not built so long ago in 2004 it is the newer 12K seat modern tennis venue to rival Uniprex in Montreal, at a cost of 45 million in 2004. York campus will also have a not to shabby multi purpose CIS stadium that will host Pan Am track.

York Region is not alone. Over in Peel Region there have been two Junior Hockey Minor league arena's built. The OHL Junior Hockey clubs were the first to figure out that getting out of Toronto Proper once that the NBA and then MLS hit town. Toronto Metro was a bit different an unique to the rest of Canadian sports markets. 1998 an Arena now with corporate naming rights to Hershey went up. After a slower start and a bit of rebranding the Steelheads are the main team in a city that has hit 7ooK plus. Mississauga is suddenly top 10 in population. In todays dollars is a 30 million dollar veneau to start. plus some reno's with modern upgrades add some more bucks. saying it could not be done they are among the most popular OHL franchises.

Up above Mississauga the city of Brampton not too shabby with a popuation that has grown to 500K plus becoming a top 20 city. The Powerade Center went up at the same time. Combined Peel region is at 1.2 million. They may not have hit the jackpot yet in hockey circles but the main arena is just part of a larger sporting complex with 3 ice pads as the highlightof the complex. Sees plenty of action as well with the popuarity of basketball and indoor Lacrosse in Toronto and southern ontario both the newer NBLC as well as CLax. Canada's own domestic pro basketball and Lacrosse leagues dominate plenty of action at the complex and main arena. ECHL AA minor pro hockey to the NHL as well are there now.
Mississauga also has a new NBLC club.
Again smart enough to realize that Toronto downtown is too crowded boasting several teams in new popular sport in Golden Horsehoe. Choosing a region of 1.2 million among the newest top cities and areas is a pretty good place to grow the sports.
Not everthing will succeed right away or first time around. As for those who chuckle at those who are looking at the future will have the last laugh. Canada Lacrosse national team is second in the world outdoors and first on the newer indoor circuit. In case you ave been sleeping under a rock growing up with the Raptors for two decades now has boasted two number 1 NBA picks among several other stars each year and the top levels of college basketball at last figures checked saw over 125 canadian players in the NCAA. most of which are in the line up playing. Ontario from top to bottom starting with both teams in Ottawa and several non football schools witin the GTHA focusing on basketball and it showing.

A couple of other tidbits before every dismisses without thinking that CFL and THE TORONTO ARGO'S have a much better chance to thrive AND THE REAL POSSIBILITY THAT A STADIUM CAN BE BUILT A LOT EASIER OUTSIDE OF DOWNTOWN TORONTO THAN IN.
Dont forget an OHL team in Oshawa called the Generals, which just built a new arena in 2006 for what now would be 50 million in base cost. ( look up thier alumni and you will see why ). MLSE of all people got original managing rights. Decided, after dissapoining reslts, it was not a good stratigic focus for them. Along came Global Spectrum and well the results speak for themselves.Oshwa incidentilly is a hotbed for Canada Lacrosse. By the way Global Spectrum just obtained managment rights to Copps in Hamilton. Now with First Ontario with Corporate naiming rights. They are just getting started bringing te arena up to date. just a few years ago CFL was dying for many years. Along comes a new stadium with a major corporate partner and it has changed that fast. Hamiton sports and their fans will end up getting the last laugh.

Down in London Bud gardens is not just a fnatastc venue but has paacked houses and great managment for Junior Hockey that everyone knows about but NBLC London Lighting pak the place just as well and are in toon with the Hockey franchise.
In Windsor basketball in NBLC as well is an event. bordering on the basketball hotbed Detrot Windsor is just a smaller Canadan version. Entertinment value with game at the casino like a mini vegas.

Oh almost forgot about K-W there is a pretty good OHL team there as well packing in close to double digits in an old arena. K-W also a top 20 metro now and just outside the city of a new CIS powerouse in Guelph.

Argos in a region metro in GTA for the long run of success. Like these other areas and the growing population and rounded sports culture it may take time for the right fit for each.
So in the short sghted BMO MLSE only world. You can bet that there are some bigger and better plans ahead and PLENTY of these other locations that would LOVE to have te second most popular sport in Canada as there home team.
Im not talking bout moving to Halifax or QC but GTA and Golden Horseshoe has plenty of options. A a world of sports minds other than MLSE.
Im not a hater at all of MLSE or Rogers but give them downtown Toronto.
from the Northwest to the southeast GTA burbs and into K-W. we are looking at regions that are bordering regions that see over a million to 2 million with corporate support, great spots fans, smart businessman, and crfty sports owners to go around

Hey Steve (and anyone else who seems to think a CFL forum is the place to take about soccer), why post this in the CFL talk forum, should be in the off topic section. Maybe you and some of the other people here who can't seem to go one day without posting something about MLS could petition the mods (assuming there are active ones still around) to create a soccer sub-forum in the off topic section.

I think the point is though that it is difficult to separate the talk of either the Argos to BMO or the Argos in another stadium complex in the GTA without it involving soccer when you come to think of it. Certainly this was and still is the case with THF in Hamilton.

Then that needs to include NHL topics as well.
I can not believe how many Argo threads turn into Leaf topics.
Also I have noticed topics here tend to digress while making a point.
OT Olympic Stadium turned into MLS Cup.

If you have followed many of Steve's posts as it relates to Argos stadium situation he has on numerous occasions argued that a stadium - perhaps shared with a soccer team - located somewhere in suburban GTA was the way to go for the Argos instead of moving to BMO and staying downtown.

So this post undoubtedly is a follow up to those other posts he has argued numerous times. That being the Argos might be better served locating outside downtown Toronto - as other leagues like MLS have done in other cities successfully. The fact that MLSE is now involved with a suburban pro sports team (TFC 2) he is presenting as support for his argument that the Argos too should be looking outside of downtown as an option.

So with that in mind I have absolutely no problem with this discussion being in the main CFL forum.

And as Earl mentioned - in Southern Ontario right now whether some like it or not - the CFL is somewhat joined at the hip to soccer. Hamilton doesn't have a new stadium - THF without Pan Am Soccer and Bob Young and the Ti-Cats are also actively pursuing a pro soccer team as a second tenant for THF. And the Argos very survival may depend upon what MLSE is willing to do for them at the soccer stadium they manage and are in the process of spending over $100 million of private money in renovating and expanding for their soccer team.

So basicly... In five years, the Argos will be playing at BMO and whatever is left of TFC(after MLS goes bankrupt) will be playing at this 5000 seat stadium... Actually, too bad this stadium wasn't ready for this year... TFC could play all of there games not involving European clubs there and still have empty seats.

Well basically in any of are discussion about the Argo’s and a future home stadium Phase 3 BMO is the only one that has been made as a public option. As for any kind of details no one outside of a very few in two involved groups have no idea. Even Cohon, who I like a lot, knew nothing at all. his only reply was that it would be great for the Argo’s to have BMO as a home field. Simply because it is of the rectangle shape and of the now preferable smaller intimate size. no one has any idea any details of said lease.
CFL and MLS soccer come because both leagues at almost the same exact time stumbled into this concept.
Montreal not having a stadium for a playoff game because of a rock concert.
Columbus owner Lamar Hunt without a stadium do to planned reno’s at the OSU stadium had to get something up quick. Hunt for sure could easily have afforded more then the 28.5 million cost. The more details would mean more time to build.
So walla just like that the CFL specific and MLS Soccer specific stadium was born.

More to the situation was that the Crew now owned the stadium and controlled all revenue.

For Montreal. You can correct me if I am way off as I am not that knowlegeable bout it. The Als certainly did not own the University stadium. I believe though the CFL club and the University had a good working relationship to where both parties benefited by. With Montreal paying some type of very reasonable rate which allowed them to generate some very good revenue during games. While the Univesity in the long run benefited with Montreal had made some much needed improvements. ( starting with cutting down trees and branches that had grown into the stadium ) to the point where they are now. As TV ratings started to boom he University had kept their school name big as life at the 55. While bringing plenty of press constantly talking about the great atmospere, mentioning the school a zillion times while doing so.
Along the way the cult type following and 20K seats led to supply and demand to favor more costs for tickets. As the Als made more money the university benefited from Montreal improving and upgrading. Seemed as though a kind of freindly trade off benefited both greatly.
Crew owned so of course they had the best dates and times for them.
While CIS did not start until fall. Montreal really had any date they wanted with summer time start to season. In the Fall CIS had saturdays as there main day. while Als settled into sunday 1:00 start. (By the way which I personally love. Now that we get every game in the states via ESPN. My slow moving Sundays always start with watching the 1:00 Als home games.

This is where the Argo's whether RC or BMO will not get an agreeable anything let alone being able to generate any kind of revenue at all.
Which again is where both the CFL and MLS followed the same path. Controling, owning, manangement rights or a very agreeable partnerhsip.
This was and is the case as soon as Toronto sold Skydome for a bag of beans aand took a city owned stadium that was built for both teams with equal benefits. To Rogers slamming the doors after whatever date they gave the Argo's throwing the Argo's and all of their banners etc out the door till nex game. In turn giving the poor fun couple of owners at the time a low cost but taking almost every profit a stadum could generate.

I guess what you need to realize is that CFL teams have historically put under 20000 actual paying fans into seats... The historical attendance figures for the league paint a different picture, but the reality is that the CFL was giving away and heavily discounting tickets for its entire existence... Not to mention the league has often counted tickets that were distributed and not actually sold. What happened in Montreal was that tickets simply could not be given away anymore. The tickets that were sold, could be resold for more so theprices kept going up... Then they wrecked it by getting greedy and expanding their stadium...
The Bombers and Riders both screwed up by overbuilding their stadiums.. Ottawa and Hamilton's are more in line with historical CFL attendance

This may be just me but I have come to see MLSE as not all that great. I would trust neither as far as I could throw the old mayor Ford. Both taking a govt paid for stadium built originally for two Toronto teams, gaining control on the cheap and making it just about impossible for Argo's to survive let alone where a CFL sized field would fit.
Thats what makes the two near perfect partners. MLSE gained management rights and then sold naming rights to BMO to make a profit for manging the stadium.
As soon as the poor regular guy Argo owners at the time bit on what Rogers was selling TFC filled where a CFL end zone would be with a ton of concrete.

Not to mention the Great MLSE stadium reno's will send TFC on the road for two months. to start the season. Although the much hated not ready for rectangle field RC for the sake of keeping TFC players some time in their own beds. I do not think they will play any games there under a warm roof at least for a couple of games.
TFC fans may or may not go to games I dont know much about it. MLS would at least have been smart enough with enough time given to schedule a match vs a club that would put a large amount of fans in the seats.

Total Fn Crap will be out of the playoffs before they even play a home game... MLSE is out of their minds... That place wont even get 10000 fans this season for any game. Well maybe for European clubs or when the new money losing New York team comes to town.

I agree with that. Suupply and demand is common buisness sense which 20K got for Montreal at the time it started. For Montreal there were some even more positive factors that went in some was just luck and some was just having a great front office with some darned good coaching.
To have that very high demand for tickets they had to win and they won a lot!. for a very long time. So credit the top guy Mr Popp to keep them winning with a good staff with him to get the players and mold them into consistant winners with a very well though out plan of how to do it.
Second a little luck with how no one could see playing at an old old Universty stadium, at least at the beginning, that was not in such good shape. and the inimate stadium era was born.
I do agree they did over expand a bit but about the same time shortly there after they had there first couple of very down seasons since entering into this era.
We cant predict totaly but if for the first time Popp had to get a new HC it was a total disaster. At the same time te greatest QB ever had his career suddenly end. he was older so his time was coming but at not just his age but the length of his career and a bad concussion and that was it.
We will never know if McPherson would or would not at least have been ssuitable but after 5 years from his first to his 5th and final he was the number 2 guy.
A debate that is of opinons by some only. Where many a time even with the Als up big that same 5 years AMac did not even see scrub time. AC staying incredibly helathy came down to Popp and his scouts to keep an Oline factory running and bringing in the right players that stepped in when ready at rec as well. Credit Trestman for having the CFL version of West coast O running to perfection and grooming replacemts for retirning offensive players like clock work.
Trestman goes, AC gets hurt, the only QB with any consitant time if only being short yardage gone as well. No QB a dud coachand crash and burned for firt time. POPP on the sidelines and Troy Smith being his guy and those two truned it around. Almost a miracluous one. Popp removed as HC. Smith now without his guy and really no experienced CFL QB coach and Smith crashed and burned.

Now that Wetenhall is senile and his son has seemed to have takin things over, he needs to dump Popp.. The whole fiasco of Higggins being hired despite Pop's objection makes me think that Popp is only there for the pay cheque now. Yeah, Pop would leave for the paycheque in the NFL, but he is comfortavle with his family in Montreal and wont leave for a similar job in the CFL

BINGO you nailed it. That money for expansion and modern amenities are not for TFC. hey Certainly are not for a CFL team.
An MLS team at BMO as THE full time tennant helps to get these major prime time reno's in place. The bigger picture is that some big time clubs, matches, and international level events are In North America every summer now and big bucks are being made. MLSE and Rogers want in on that in a BADD way. a 100 million dollars in spending are not for TFC. and not bucking up a another 10 million for CFL reno's should raise a HUGE red flag that they do not wnat or never wanted the Argo's. So far pouring concrete and then leaving funding just short for phase 3 are what we know of.
The US gets all the huge action and this will change it for MLSE, Rogers,and Toronto.
THE top world class pitch with the heated field is already in place.
FIFA min capacity for any major event is 40K. BMO's new expanded capacity.
Sportsnet and TSN split all MLSE rgional rights. TFC matches are on the main TSN and TSN2. TSN with RDS own National MLS rights. Sportnet 360 is the home for most TFC games.
Rogers wont give the Argo's any dates but the Mexican National Team series and their Huge following every summer and they will manuever some Jays games. Say what you may about the two MLSE and Rogers. he city of Toronto and the surrounding GTA is a beautiful place to visit. Hence the Mexican National team brings their own grass and a huge visiting fan base and RC is packed. And no one from mexico in the stands complains about any bad sight lines.
BMO will have a lil less capacity at 40K but the immaculate top level pitch is in Place. And the main stadium VIP ammenity resturant has a corporate sponsor. You guessed it. Its Rogers.
Aside from pulling the wool over the powers to be in Toronto about Argo's and GCs as a big reason for reno's. Also sold the same fools that it needed to be done in time for Pan Am Games. BMO and all of ts glory will be used for total of three days of Rugby 7's. Guess what the next event will be. During the Pan Am games no less. For the 1st time ever A canadian city will host a double header in what in the ConCacaf, North and central america and carbeans regions Gold cup championsips. With the best pitch money can buy and the big talk about Pan Am games blah blah and not even the Pan Am championship games will be at BMO. A whole torunament may tear up the grass but the mens and womens U- something teams in the Pan Am games does not rate. Now having a pool play double header wit the likes of Mexico, te US, home country Canada and even a high world ranked Costa rica.

Sky will e the limit for top club teams touring up to More Gold cup In Toronto and even more. That is what will be a scond tennant for BMO. Not the Argo's.
The Argo's still could get BMO but it already is being made extra hard. third in line for dates. GC never happen sure doubbful TFC gets that deep i the playoffs. But the 40K min is grey cup standards. and 40K is expandable for soccer. You start rectacting seats for end zones and no 40 K capacity.
Baseball season in over by November. Rogers has already state that after baseball they will have events in the winter. Rogers getting free advetising on TSN with Canada's biggest yearly watched event. Yea they allow the CFL and Argo's to have aGC and playoffs for that matter pretty big rating there as well

[quote="Mr.Bungle"]Now that Wetenhall is senile and his son has seemed to have takin things over, he needs to dump Popp.. The whole fiasco of Higggins being hired despite Pop's objection makes me think that Popp is only there for the pay cheque now. Yeah, Pop would leave for the paycheque in the NFL, but he is comfortavle with his family in Montreal and wont leave for a similar job in the CFL[/quot

That could be true about pay for Popp but I think he is back into it full force. Sure some people will complain about older cast offs some will praise it for the locker room presence. But thas just a small part of what he has done. He got everone back from a great defense with a great DC and has added as well with at least one prime time lock down CB still atop his game in late 20's rsigned there own lock down CB as well as every key player. Added a prime starting Natioal rec with giguere. Stamps got squeezed out in EDM with new regime but he will only need be second or 3rd to SJ and Giguere moving from the very far away field side wR. To SB. Got a glimpse of him last season there when fantuz was out. He is a physical speciman strong as any receiver and faster than most. got a now experienced national OL top pick back from the NFL. has become a true center and play OG. Older and lots of miles on both national all star OTs. Matte socked many last season by playing the left side of the OL at LG. He now has abilty to swing to RT if needed.
Finally they have a FT ST coach. 13th man jokes aside and aHC meltdown Kavis reed is a good CFL coach and on the D or teams as OC. Just not a HC. Special teams being a non factor for years with treatman now have several return specialist that can return punts and KO added a vet returnerer in Logan. Both Giguere and Sutton can double as Kick off returners. Thorpes got plenty of defnsive atheltes to add to the solid National dpeth for coverage teams. AND A PUNTER who can flip the field AND CAN GET KICKOFFS PAST THE 30 AND TO THE GOLINE

An OC finally with the greatest QB ever who could have called his own plays if he wanted as a vet QB. unsure with the QB stocking the Oline back up and a deep variety of RB/FB/TE/Hybrids. yojng in prime older vets. power backs scat backs Crompton or lefefour will be able to lean on a run game while taking shot to green speed stamps and giguer over the middle like a rock

Retrning with the same offensive concept with one of the two guys inTurk. rplacing garcia with AC. games 1-6 will be working out kinks and adding on from last year 6-12 is when it comes together. Hamilton, Toronto with establsed top offensive HCs and the process completed to add a full staff that will work out an Montreal is now back as well.

By seasons end Ottawa will be lighting up the scoreboard. Not sure if there DBs as whole will be able to cover any oth the top rec on the other 3 in the east tho

Greg Kerfoot in Vancouver here wanted to spend his own money and do the exact same thing... The province and the city instead rejected his proposal and went out and wasted 600 million dollars on a useless stadium... MLSE then went and got millions from the government to implement the plan in Toronto...
This country is ridiculous...

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