Monies are for Stadium with 15,000 Seats Max.

Its 3:35pm and I just got on this site to see whats new. I thought for sure that the big news that came out this morning (possibly yesterday) regarding a new stadium in Hamilton (or where ever) would have been under close scrutiny and intense conversation; the earth shattering news being that monies allocated towards a new stadium for the Pan Am games would be for a facility of 10,000 to 15,000 seats.

In order to get the stadium of 27,000 seats (or more) that we thought was in the works, the city and other doners are going to have to kick in a lot more dough.

I find it hard to believe that our mayor and city council weren't aware of this "small" detail" and that it wasn't publicized until today.

I also find it hard to believe that Jacoda Pike, the head of the Toronto 2015 committee and former editor of the Hamilton Spectator didn't make this fact known to us. (Or did she?)

This sheds very harsh new light on the whole stadium situation, in that the price to accommodate our
beloved Ti-Cats in Hamilton is going up significantly.

Who'da thunk it?

I am sure if we were awarded the Pan Am games bid, and also the stadium, sufficient monies would be provided by the city, provincial government and of course Bob Young. If not, Toronto simply gets another stadium, they will definetely get the funding. If the full 150 million is provided by the provincial government, the city and Bob Young, then we should have no problem building a respectable facility. BMO was built on 62 million, with twice the money we should be able to build twice the facility.

Personally, I don't mind paying a bit more municipal taxes for the stadium but then I know the value of athletics and love the TiCats. But the more Bob Young puts into this stadium, the more he should get back and not just from football, and that's the way it should be. I hope city hall understands this.

According to this report on, Premier Dalton McGuinty has announced a 300 million dollar cutback to its 1.8 billion sports infrastructure budget and the province will be reconsidering its participation in projects such as the proposed Pan Am Stadium:

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So much for infrastructure projects and projects to promote athletics and people seeing that track and running and that are good for your health, society's health, less health problems, less hospital admissions. Hey, I guess he wants us to sit more by our computers, get fat, play computer games etc. Hey, with the downfall in the economy, why not, sit around and just lounge all the time and get big and fat. Your choice Dalton. Either way, you're going to be paying buddy. I know myself when I see athletes up close and personal, especially say track and field events, not pro, where the athletes are super fit to do whatever event, gets me pumped to go out and get more in shape.

A shame if our provincial government can't see the full implications of this but then, I don't fully understand politics have to admit. My best friend died of colon cancer and it has been shown in good studies that there is a relationship between exercise and colon cancer, in some cases. But hey, maybe Dalton knows better.

the same money can use fix IWS
It should cost about same as new 15,000 Seat Stadium

Here is that jaw-dropping article from this morning.

Bigger stadium, bigger costs

The Hamilton Spectator
(Jan 23, 2009)

"We can't go beyond what is required for the Games"

in terms of financing, she [bid president Jagoda Pike] stressed.

Pike noted that plans "grander" than Pan Am needs
will have to find other sources to cover extras.

If Toronto 2015 budgets only $100 million for a track and field facility,
Hamilton's bill for a larger stadium would rise dramatically.

The bid corporation would pick up 56 per cent of the capital cost, or $56 million.

The city would have to pull together the remainder
for the proposed $150-million showpiece, $94 million.

That financing would have to come from a combination of city
and other government funding as well as a private-sector component,

including the Hamilton Tiger-Cats.

Team owner Bob Young said it's too early to determine what
the football franchise and other businesses can bring to the table.

Stressing site selection is critical to bringing businesses onside,

Young said, "You want to look at things like

a hotel, shopping and hosting entertainment events."

Young said he could live with

playing at the badly declining Ivor Wynne as long as the city maintains it,

but feels a new stadium located in the right spot could be a symbol of a new Hamilton.

"Stadiums are great gathering places. Where else can you get 25,000 people
sharing the experience, whether football or track or a rock concert?"

Part 2 one hour ago

Ontario slashing budget for 2015 Pan Am Games bid

McGuinty blames economic woes

January 23, 2009 Maria Babbage

The Canadian Press HAVELOCK, Ont.

*Premier Dalton McGuinty says Ontario is slashing the budget for its 2015 Pan Am Games bid by $300 million because of the economic downturn.
  • The original budget was $1.77 billion, with $500 million coming from the
    federal government and the Ontario government promising to invest $621 million.

When McGuinty made the formal bid presentation in Mexico in October,

he said new Olympic-sized swimming pools, a competitive cycling velodrome,
plus track and sports training facilities would all be built if the bid is successful.

Then they claim some crap about today's economic downturn
being the reason they are cutting back, when, in actuality,

much of the money will handed over in the years when
this downturn may have passed, 2011, 20012, 2013 2014 etc.

Today's economic downturn is the very reason they should prime the pump
on a project like this to provide the economic stimulus this province needs.

This flip flop doubles the money that Hamiton has to put in.

* Ontario’s lack of high-level facilities has been blamed for the shrinking number of provincial athletes who make Canada’s Olympic teams.

Ontario residents used to comprise more than half of the
country’s Olympic teams, and now it’s less than 25 per cent.

The Pan Am Games bring together athletes from 42 countries
across the Americas and the Caribbean every four years.

An article in today's edition of the Hamilton Spectator reports that the $300 million provincial cut in the sports infrastructure budget results in no velodrome and swimming pool for Hamilton.

The reduced-size stadium project is still moving forward. The 2015 Pam Am bid company will fund 56% of a 15,000 seat stadium. The report notes that the originally anticipated stadium of 24,000 to 27,000 seats has now become "$50 million pricier" for the City of Hamilton.

BMO Field

Location 170 Princes Blvd Toronto, Ontario M6K3C3
Broke ground 2006
Opened April 28, 2007
Owner City of Toronto
Operator MLSE Ltd.
Surface FieldTurf
Construction cost C$62.5 million
Architect Brisbin Brooks Beynon Architects
Capacity 20,844 (Soccer)
Toronto FC, Canada men's national soccer team

Management, ownership and funding

Toronto FC is owned by Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd. (MLSE), owners of the National Hockey League's Toronto Maple Leafs and the National Basketball Association's Toronto Raptors. In addition, MLSE contributed towards the cost of the building of the stadium. With the total costs in the realm of $62 million ($72 million including land), contributions came from multiple sources. MLSE contributed $8 million towards the construction of the stadium and $10 million towards securing the naming rights of the stadium. The Canadian Federal Government contributed $27 million, with Ontario's government adding an additional $8 million. Toronto paid $9.8 million, and has the ownership of the stadium. (All figures are in Canadian dollars.)

In 2007 it cost 72.5 million to build BMO field, for 100 million you can build a pretty good stadium!!



Why do they need a velodrome anyways? Can't they do road races instead? Swimming, well, maybe another community can pick that up.

If we continue on in a recession isnt it wise to build as construction costs decrease. Past has shown this. Mayby in another year costs to build wil decrease even more. Might not be a bad time to build a new stadium in the next two years. Im pretty sure contractors will be fighting more to get contracts. It should be pretty competitve soon when obtaining estimates.

Agree, new housing developments are not going to be happening at nearly the rate they have been from what I understand so a lot of companies and workers looking for contracts you know.

I have attended several games at your extisting stadium and found it excellent at viewing the game. The fans are relatively close to the field and therefore is a very fan friendly. Why look at acquiring a new stadium when IW is a fans gem?

No question about IWS. But the problem is the stadium is located in a part of town where, I think, a reasonable amount of people in the area that do have some money, wouldn't get caught being seen in and see this part of Hamilton, rightly or wrongly, as just plain too low-class or "not right" for them. Where these people come from, their garages are Taj Mahals compared to some of the houses where IWS is located.

Hey, that's not me, I actually like, for some reason, walking from Centre Mall to the stadium and seeing derelict shops and greasy bars where someone yells at me in some sort of English version of the language, totally pissed, "hey, go TiCats, yah man". Believe me, I actually like this. But that's just me.

With all due respect, Ivor Wynne Stadium is falling apart. It requires millions of dollars annually for maintenance with costs expected to soar as time goes on. It hasn't quite reached the stage of an accident waiting to happen, but it is on its way.

I grew up in the IWS neighbourhood and although it is now quite old, it is generally well kept. Due to the age of this area, however, it could become a potential "less than savory neighbourhood." Many say it is now. Some say they like the idea of parking on people's front lawns or on the dirt tract of property between Cannon and King streets which is (was) Scott Park. Some detest it, saying that it adds to Hamilton being a second rate city. There are no nice places to eat or have a beer nearby and the whole picture probably isn't what it should be at this time in our history.

The main objection to the stadium however, remains the fact that it is on its last legs. Its life could certainly be prolonged, of course, but at what price?

Its time to move on.

Well said Spike!

I love coming in from Toronto to watch the 'Cats but I've seen that area decline badly over the past 20 years or so. And it would be nice to have a place to have a beer prior to gametime; close to the stadium.

I've always envisioned a stadium on the lake in that Confed Park area. Of course, it won't get done for only 15,000 spectators unless it's easily expandable to 30,000. Why would it? It would serve no viable post-PanAm purpose.

And as far as the anti-sports Eco-Nazis are concerned, where are they when we build an opera hall or bloated art gallery? You'd think football stadiums are right up there with Love Canal in the toxic waste department! Environmental impact? C'mon!

They just don't see sports as an important cultural entity and they'll do anything to stop a project like this!

It's ironic. For as much as they detest sports, they sure can play the game!

Carrying along with the post made by spikejones, here is some additional information to consider.

This editorial by Howard Elliott of The Hamilton Spectator on Sep 29/07 addresses the issue of renovating Ivor Wynne Stadium versus building a new stadium quite well:

Elliott noted that the estimated cost of renovating Ivor Wynne Stadium would be in the range of $30 million to $40 million while a new stadium would cost in the range of $150 million to $200 million.

Fast forwarding to the events of this week, here was the basic cost breakdown of the original plan to building a 27,000 seat stadium as reported in The Hamilton Spectator on Jan 17/09:

Total estimated cost = $150 million
Pan Am bid company would have paid 56% = $84 million
City of Hamilton would have paid 44% = $66 million
The newspaper article also noted that renovating Ivor Wynne Stadium was not an option because it only covers 5.45 hectares of land and 8 hectares of land is needed for the stadium and practice track for the Pan Am Games.

And here is the basic cost breakdown of the revised plan to build a 15,000 seat stadium as reported in The Hamilton Spectator a day or two ago:

Total estimated cost = $100 million
Pan Am bid company would pay 56% = $56 million
City of Hamilton would pay 44% = $44 million

And if the City of Hamilton still wishes to build a 27,000 seat stadium for $150 million, here is the basic cost breakdown:

Total estimated cost = $150 million
Pan Am bid company would pay 56% of $100 million = $56 million
City of Hamilton would pay 44% of $100 million plus an extra $50 million= $94 million

The City of Hamilton has three choices (if the Pan Am bid succeeds and apart from any contributions that might be made by other partners such as the Ticat organization):

  1. Renovate Ivor Wynne Stadium for approximately $30 million to $40 million without any money from the Pan Am bid company;
  2. Build a new $150 million stadium at a $94 million cost to the city;
  3. The status quo.

Which choice do you think the City of Hamilton should make? And which choice do you think they will make? Whatever they decide, one hopes that they read Howard Elliott's 2007 editorial before making their final decision.

(1) Choose 1 is best choice at this time .. The City is already Paying to Rebuild Roads and Infostucture
Plus The Lister Block and City Hall we can't afford the 94 to 100 Millon for a new Stadium

Umm...any stadium built on Confederation Park won't have "a place to have a beer prior to gametime; close to the stadium. "

TCTD, I like that you keep thinking and suggesting ideas on this topic.

Keep 'em comin' , folks.

My 2 cents...I don't know whether there is a way to fit in
a temporary track and field facility inside Ivor Wynne

but Scott Park might be adequate for
a temporary track and field facility,

A 30-40 million renovation might spiff Ivor Wynne up
enough to satisfy the Pan Ams Games committee.

IMO, all new seats would have to be included.

and lots of work would have be done on the North side
because it is 30-40 years older than the south side.

The south side already has brand new aluminum steps