MLSE Interested in Argo's.

Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment are looking at the potential of buying the Argo's from current owner David Braley according to the Toronto Sun.

[url=http://www.torontosun.com/2013/09/03/eventual-argos-sale-could-lead-nfl-to-toronto]http://www.torontosun.com/2013/09/03/ev ... to-toronto[/url]

For the price of a few hockey players salaries for one year and showing the NFL it does "care" about football, seems like an excellent idea really if their long term goal is an NFL franchise. Sort of like hosting the PanAms with the hope this shows people Toronto can do a games for the ultimate, the Olympics. Same sort of principle.

That's a tricky one... Letting that bunch "in" would have to come with some stiff conditions. Not sure this is a good idea unless they can guarantee a stadium in writing. I'd be concerned they would buy the Argos to get their soccer stadium expanded and then ditch them.

Hf, the TFC fans have made it very clear that they don't want gridiron at BMO. I don't think MLSE will touch BMO with the Argos as that would peeve off the soccer fans, as it is TFC hasn't done well and the fans are not all that pleased right now.

It will be interesting to follow this one.

[b] TORONTO SUN The fact MLSE has taken a look at the Argos, even in a peripheral way, speaks to a vision that clearly involves the NFL, at least that’s the scenario painted by many in the industry, who, at this point, aren’t prepared to go public.

In terms of big-league sports, football is the one missing jewel in the MLSE structure.
It gets no bigger than the NFL, but to play with big boys it will involve MLSE pursuing the Argos.

The theory is that MLSE will need to show the NFL it can make a football product viable — and what better way than by making the Double Blue relevant in Toronto, by investing the money necessary to build a full-time facility and perhaps even a new football stadium.

There also has been this theory that the NFL does not want to enter the Toronto market full-time, fearing it would destroy the entire Canadian Football League. If MLSE ends up owning the Argonauts, it could help prevent the NFL from looking like the bad guy if a four-down franchise is placed north of the border — and the CFL ends up suffering from the increased football competition in the battle for TV viewers and media interest.[/b]


Unless MLSE are willing to finance a 65,000+ seat stadium, the NFL will not be interested in the Toronto market period.

MLSE and/or Rogers would be well-served to just purchase and brand the Argos into relevance within the marketplace and retro-fit BMO.
Kevin Payne (TFC President) and MLSE CEO Tim Leiweke have recently stated publicly ambitious plans to upgrade BMO Field regardless, thus would be much more cost feasible to add the Argos into the already established intimate stadium rather than build anew from scratch.

The only reservation I have is the track record of failures with MLSE sports properties...

Lots of politics involved. BMO belongs to the city of Toronto and MLSE wants upgrades which they can't get unless the city agrees and it is very likely right now that Ford will demand that the Argos are factored in if the city is going to spend millions on upgrading a facility that has been hijacked as it is. This has nothing to do with the well being of the Argonauts but everything to do with fear that a new football stadium is built and MLSE locked out of football (NFL or CFL) in Toronto for decades or using the Argos to leverage money and permits for BMO.

I'd be very, very careful if I was Cohon and the BOG.

Coming from a long time fan and season ticket holder, this would be the worse thing yet.
A faceless corporation that has ruined pro sports in the city, I would cancel my tickets.

Here's an example of a post at Red Patch Boys Forum. Those guys there hate the Argos or more importantly "pointy ball" as I guess that's how the pure soccer crowd refers to gridiron sometimes. They are scared poopless of the lines and the field getting all messed up and making TFC look bush-league, I guess. Argos won't be playing at BMO I don't think:

I'd be interested to see a poll amongst TFC supporters (those who attend regularly and those who attend occasionally) on how gridiron lines at BMO would affect their attendance. Those lines are just so bush-league. They play into the hands of every Euro-snob and Latino-snob who looks down on MLS and I can only imagine the reaction of any decent overseas player we might try to woo to TFC. I for one can't imagine ever attending another TFC match at BMO again if the pitch is criss-crossed with multiple lines. It would be a major regression

hmm...upgrade BMO, move the argos in and lose the TFC fans?
sounds like a win-win.
lol

Ultimately this would piss off fans from both teams.

On the bright side..... they would just be another MLSE team that can only dream of a championship.... heck.... even dream of making the playoffs.

Where does it say that the NFL requires a 65,000 seat stadium? You can bet the NFL are just waiting for the chance to come into the second biggest market in North America, the richest area in North America with endless corporate funding.
Where the fans will pay $100 per ticket not the $60 NFL average. We know what Torontonians will pay to watch the Leafs, Jays, Raptors and the Bills NFL series.
The Rogers Centre can be expanded if needed with more seats for the NFL, an NFL field is smaller and seats can be put into the endzones and down to the floor like a lot of NFL stadium. They have already talked about taking out that hotel and putting seats up there so 60k if needed is not out of the question.

It does seem ironic that MLSE would buy the Argos to make them succesful so they can get an NFL franchise.

However Toronto can get a football specific stadium to showcase in Canada's largest city, the Grey Cup, is good with me. It just helps football in this country if this is the case IMHO.

mikem wrote: You can bet the NFL are just waiting for the chance to come into the second biggest market in North America, the richest area in North America with endless corporate funding. Where the fans will pay $100 per ticket not the $60 NFL average. We know what Torontonians will pay to watch the Leafs, Jays, Raptors and the Bills NFL series.
We know what Torontonians will pay for the Leafs. The rest are ambiguous at the very least and/or compulsory packages with the another MLSE property (e.g. Leafs/Raptors)
mikem wrote: The Rogers Centre can be expanded if needed with more seats for the NFL, an NFL field is smaller and seats can be put into the endzones and down to the floor like a lot of NFL stadium. They have already talked about taking out that hotel and putting seats up there so 60k if needed is not out of the question.
even if the RC could be expanded, it is a moot point as Rogers is slated to change the turf to grass and the internal structure to accommodate a baseball specific facility.

i.e. no Argos. no NFL team. NO football.

Where then do you expect this new Toronto NFL team to play?
an NFL standard stadium would have to be built from scratch and no level of Canadian government would dare subsidize a near billion dollar facility exclusively for American football.

Asking for some help from any soccer fans out there. Last week I watched a Vancouver Whitecaps game
from B.C Place . the were no football lines on the field. They must have a system which allows them to
cover the football field with a more visually friendly soccer pitch.

My questions are

How do they do this?

Why can't they just do that in Toronto?

It seems that where there is a will there is a way!

T

angledweb
even if the RC could be expanded, it is a moot point as Rogers is slated to change the turf to grass and the internal structure to accommodate a baseball specific facility.

i.e. no Argos. no NFL team. NO football.

Where then do you expect this new Toronto NFL team to play?
an NFL standard stadium would have to be built from scratch and no level of Canadian government would dare subsidize a near billion dollar facility exclusively for American football.


The RC can be expanded to the NFL standard, it's always easier to downsize. As for the grass, it doesn't grow in the winter it has to be taken out at the end of the baseball season and put in again in the spring. The first NFL game is around the 9th of September and the Toronto NFL team would have to start on the road and the Jays would have to play their last 10 games or so on the road. That's not a problem, very little overlap unless the Jays reach the playoffs. Pre-season games could be played in Buffalo
It can be done and it's a lot cheaper than building a new stadium.
The rumour is that the Jays may be looking at a baseball specific stadium just east of the downtown in the area close to the Pan Am site.

Governments may consider funding a large stadium if the business plan is right. The NFL makes a lot of money and if the team paid the city/province $20Million or so a year over 30 years and a portion of the concessions/parking, Naming Rights etc then they could sell it that way. The city of Ottawa funded their new stadium on a similar business plan, OSEG demonstrated how the city could make money. The other option is private sector funding, I'm sure with the corporations in Toronto that a business case could be put forward.

Yeah I'd like to see the guy who's going to pitch Ontario tax payers to pay to build Rogers a second billion dollar elephant. Keem em coming Micker :thup:

Roger Goodell has publicly stated they don't want much to do with the RC. That we know. I do think he likes Toronto of course, it is a large multicultural city.

Toronto will have to figure out what next stadium they build, football or baseball. I don't see 2 new "major league" stadiums being built though in the short term. The NFL business model with television revenue makes more sense from an ownership point of view but for bringing people from outside to the city, the number of games baseball plays makes more sense to the city. I would think.

But Toronto has an MLB team, they don't have an NFL team. And the NFL is and probably not arguably, the most popular pro sports league in the US. Interesting. Maybe we'll see Rogers and MLSE in battle over who will get the most money for a new stadium. That will be fun to watch. A battle or a war? :wink:

Hey they can do like Jerry Jones in Dallas (A smaller market according to Mic'r mikem... and buy their own :lol:

so you are proposing that a Toronto NFL team play all pre-season games in another country, including being on the road throughout September, forfeiting 2 additional home games?
and what if the Jays make the playoffs for October? then what? NFL Toronto plays on the road for nearly 3 months?

not a plausible scenario, nor one the NFL will accept.

and in order to sustain a grass field, seats along the 1st and 3rd base sides would have to be anchored permanently which negates any football accommodation whatsoever.
Rogers has already publicly stated the intention is for the RC to be a baseball specific facility, hence why the Argos were given notice to find an alternative home.

mikem wrote: Governments may consider funding a large stadium if the business plan is right. The NFL makes a lot of money and if the team paid the city/province $20Million or so a year over 30 years and a portion of the concessions/parking, Naming Rights etc then they could sell it that way. The city of Ottawa funded their new stadium on a similar business plan, OSEG demonstrated how the city could make money. The other option is private sector funding, I'm sure with the corporations in Toronto that a business case could be put forward.
$20 million a year for 30 years would not cover the vast principle cost of an NFL stadium, nor the tremendous interest incurred over that time.

No level of Canadian government will subsidize the NFL, especially with the existence of the CFL.