Milwaukee, Now do you guys see my point???

When I wrote my first thread on expanding to northern US cities that border Canada in hopes to make the CFL a larger stronger league, most of you jumped all over me.
You guys said " We need to expand into other Canadian cites like Ottawa, Halifax, and Quebec…"
I have always been pro Canada and would love to see teams in those Canadian cities before anywhere else but, we have to come to grips with reality.
And that is Milwaukee, Portland, and Rochester are Northern cities that can actually support a CFL team.
They have the fans, the stadiums, and a knowledge about Canada.
Halifax pulled their bid out of the games and once again no stadium is going to be built their. Halifax even had my hopes up until that.
Ottawa seems like the only place left to put a team but the Palmer group wont be able to keep it together.
And Quebec has a long road ahead of them.

Here is a example of a high school stadium in Portland

[url=http://www.northeastturf.com/images/installs/portland_HS.jpg]http://www.northeastturf.com/images/ins ... and_HS.jpg[/url]

If you look at it, there is room for a CFL feild without touching the track.
Plus more room for seating.
Here is a football layout for PGE park in Portland where the CFL already helt a exhibition game with 17 000 fans

[url=http://www.gotickets.com/cached/_images/443.443.pgepark_football.fit.gif]http://www.gotickets.com/cached/_images ... ll.fit.gif[/url] [url=http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/north_america/united_states/oregon/portland_pge.shtml]http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pi ... _pge.shtml[/url]

Reser Stadium in Oregon has room for a CFL feild.

[url=http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/north_america/united_states/oregon/corvallis_reser.shtml]http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pi ... eser.shtml[/url]

Paetec Park in Rochester

http://www.rhinossoccer.com/uimages/pp2.jpg

And of course Milwaukee has my favourite list of stadiums in my profile link. Plus a new MLS stadium on the way.

Bottom line is ( except for maybe Ottawa ) that there will NOT be any expansion into Canda any time soon.

I say lets target the Northern Border cities in the US.
Lets even through Detroit into the mix.

So tell me, How are you going to get the US Government to change the labour laws so that ALL, let me say it again ALL the CFL teams have the same rules without getting an advantage.

Until You can tell me how you can get the US Government to change those laws, US Expansion is a waste of time.

We already covered the labour laws and came to several conclusions.
Maybe you can answer me a question sportsmen, where on earth can the CFL expand too?
We need more than 8 teams to be a more competitive league.

Yeah the conclusion is that US expansion is Stupid if they have different rules then the Canadian teams.

Expanding just for the sake of expanding is stupid. If you can expand with a solid owner and solid business plan that fits the CFL RULES and STANDARDS then hey, I'm all for it.

Would I like to have seen Halifax? You bet I would. I was deep down hoping that the McCain familly would step up to the plate. I was hoping the Commonwealth games would provide a Stadium. Unfortunately it didn't happen.

I will jump on the Quebec City Band wagon. Give me some strong ownership hopefuls and a Stadium plan that makes sense and I will be there too!

But come on you guys, Victoria, Red Deer, Saskatoon, US expansion with out labour restrictions, are just too far out of reach.

...I am going to side with Sporty....expansion just for the sake of expansion is a bad idea....better to have a financially healthy eight teams than the fiascos of the early/mid 90's....

Sports you and I agree on so many points.
If you read my other post you will see that I am against expansion in Victoria, Red Deer, Saskatoon, ect
I am not pro expansion for the sake of expanding. I am pro expansion in strategically placing a team in a city that will work economically for the good of the league and fans.
The last US expansion was rush and the CFL was desperate and you know that.
A new deal can easilly be reached that can work with or around the labour laws such as limiting US teams to using players from the state the team is actually in.
Right now most players in the CFL are from the US anyway.
Plus the NFL, AFL, NFL Europe and soon the AAFL will be scooping up the best American players anyway.
Without a larger CFL we will not be able to compete.
So I now ask you, how can we compete unless we expand?
We need Ottawa back.
Halifax is gone and wont be talked about again for another 20 years.
Quebec has a stadium made out of wood. There will be no talks about a team in Quebec any time soon even though I would love to see a team there.
We need a stronger CFL. We are living in the age of technology and high competition.
Football from any league can be watched on satelite or online.
Baltimore has more CFL fans than Ottawa. Winnipeg Grey Cup proved that.
I can not find a better place to expand too than Detroit, Milwaukee, Rochester, or Portland.
I am not asking for all 4, just 1.
1 US team and Ottawa to make the CFL a stronger 10 team league.
12 teams would be nice, but 10 would hit the nail on the head.

A Detroit/Windsor team would be a great idea.
A good example was team Canada playing in North Dakota.
10 plus Canadians crossed the border to cheer on their team each game.

Beer Baron, that is where you are dead wrong! Forcing the US Teams to use players from their state wont work. The USA is a "Football factory" A state like California for example (USC, UCLA to name a couple) would produce more quality players than the entire CIS league!

I'll make a deal with you.

Convince the Bush administration to waive the labour rules so Expansion to Baltimore and Milwaukee (yes, I said Milwaukee) have to include the same amount of Canadians as Winnipeg, Calgary and the rest of the Canadian teams, and I'll insert a Baltimore or Milwaukee (Your choice) avatar on my signature for a year!

Actually Beer Baron, I'll go one better, take up my challenge with the Bush administration, and I will buy you a beer at your home opener in Milwaukee!

After all Mrs Sportsmen and I usually make an away game once a year. I'm sure the retirment savings can afford a trip there!

lol Thanks Sports.
I will hold you to that.
LOL like I can really get on the horn and talk to George Bush,lol but I like your way of thinking however, your way of thinking would also eliminate 80% of Canadas ecomony.
Thats right, 80% of our ecomony is from buying/selling with the US. We benifit more from the US than the US benifits from us.
There, you want to take it to that extreme then so will I.
Here is a serious answer for you. I think that the fault is not with the US labour laws but with the CFL.
Its the CFL that forces teams to use Canadian players when there are better non Canadian players who are eager to jump at a chance to play pro football in the CFL.
I am all for Canadians playing in the CFL but not at the expence of hiring the best person for the job.
What you are forgetting is that the best players in the CFL are American. And thats coming from a die hard Canadian. Thats reality.
Every CFL team fills their roster with the best of the best. Then afterwards, they give the remaining spots to Canadians.
Sorry to bring the facts to you guys, but this is not where I stand, this is where the CFL teams stand.
Look at your favourite teams roster and you will see that the best players are in fact American.
And for the record, I have gone to more games in Regina than Winnipeg and I live close to Winnipeg.

Talking about expanding to Canadian cities without a stadium already in place or a government committement to build one is a waste of everyone's time. Much more chance of something happening in the US if the league NEEDS to expand but I don't think they NEED to really, unless the conditions ie. great owner and a good facility is there.

And let the US team play with all Americans for all I care, just my opinion. If they win every year, then really why should we make it so our Canadians are mandated to have to have so many positions anyways?

The Labor Laws haven't stopped the NHL from having 6 Canadian Teams.

The only stadium in Milwaukee that is "Major League" is Miller Park and we don't even know if Miller Park can fit a football field in there. Other Baseball Stadiums like AT&T Park, Chase Field, Dolphin Stadium, McAfee Coliseum, Rogers Center and the Skydome can all fit a football stadium in there.

Plus, the Brewers only want baseball to be played at Miller Park.

The NFL was in this same quandry in 1993, when they decided to expand. Instead of Baltimore and St. Louis they chose Jacksonville, Florida and Charlotte, North Carolina.

The NFL seems to be working in Carolina, but in Jacksonville its a whole different story.

Post-GC expansion thread number 55.

It's the same stuff, same arguments, same inability to convince the other and the same inability to actually make a difference if this thread existed or not ...

:( ... but it gets us through the winter ... :|

Ok BB
You are right!
The CFl should expand to MIlwalkie and every other US city you mentioned then on to Iceland and Europe Asia and the Africa!

You were right all along and we were wrong!

Now can we drop this and move on?

but it gets us through the winter

True enough sober and on that, I will definitely quash down a pint or two when I get home ce soir. 8)

Ah thats because the NHL does not have a inport nonimport player quota!!!!!! So how is the fact that the NHL has six Canadian teams relevant to the issue of the CFL being able to keep restrictions on players if it has US teams?

Forget about Victoria. Despite their population base, a CFL team could draw more fans in Kingston, Ont. (which has hosted the Grey Cup game in the past).

Victoria is a sleepy backwater packed with senior ex-pats who are more into knitting, soccer, rugby & basketball. A CFL team could never draw more than 2,500 fans there.

And as long as their is a Saskatchewan Roughrider team, there will never be a CFL team in Saskatoon.

Red Deer is the only logical choice. Despite its modest size, it is only an hour and a half drive from both Edmonton and Calgary, Canada's football heartland. A Red Deer team would play the other Alberta teams at least six times. Their home games could draw fans from throughout central Alberta, plus opposing fans invading from Edm & Cal. This franchise would be a natural winner, and offers much more upside than other larger cities being mentioned.

I would say that Halifax still has a shot at landing a team. It will be more difficult for them to do that now, but its still possible. Ottawa and Quebec City need to get their acts together and then we can talk expansion. Sorry Beer Barons, expansion to the states was tried once and it failed miserably. I agree with Sportsmen on this as well. Until the US gov't changes their labor laws, then expansion to the states is a non-starter.

Sambo US expansion did NOT fail miserably.
In the south it failed miserably, it the north (Baltimore) the CFL Rocked!

Sambo my point is that it would be easier to put a team in a northern US border town city than it would to put a team in Ottawa, Halifax, or Quebec.
Its sad, but it is reality.

Invader my freind.
Very good idea.
Why did I not think of that.
Your right on the money.
Calgary, and Edmonton fans would constantly come to the games in thousands, plus Rider fans as well.
Red deer has 82,971 people in the city plus all the surrounding towns.

http://www.globalairphotos.com/maps/ab/red_deer_s.jpg

The only problem is that there is no stadium in Red Deer.