Me again, on the 'American Cities' post below

Just curious on why the CFL decided to expand into the US, where it would be in direct competition with the NFL and NCAA. You guys had/have a great league with it's place, so why try to make a move that seemed doomed to failure?

I was in my mid teens when this happened, and actually watched Baltimore win the Cup (that's just wrong), and remember thinking to myself, 'this isn't going to work.'

I've always been curious on why the CFL made this move, and maybe someone can give some insight on it. And of all the cities they put franchises in, only Baltimore made any sense. The remaining cities weren't going to work. Who made these horrible decisions?

Now onto the current CFL. Will the league be expanding anytime soon? I think it would be cool to have a total of 12 teams with only 4 making the playoffs. Although, I know it will be hard to find 3 more cities capable of hosting a franchise. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but if you only have 9 teams in the league, why does 6 of them make the playoffs? Doesn't that reward a bad team or two?

Also, the NFL is talking expansion into international markets. So dont be surprised if one day you find a team in either Toronto or somewhere in Mexico. Although nothing is going to happen until they get a team back in L.A. Just some FYI for you, because in a decade or two Toronto could have a new downtown football stadium. Although, I'm still skeptical about all of their "talk."

Ok I'm gone, but I'll be keeping more up with the league after getting to watch some games on the tele. You can never get too much football.



it seemed like a good idea at the time, their were a few large markets without pro football (or any pro) teams and the WLAF just went on Hiatus to convert into an all euro league (NFL Euro), and the CFL thought it could fit in the void, make money, and be as big as the other pre leagues in NA.

The commisser at the time wanted to make the CFL with 20 teams, 10 in Canada and 10 in the US.

A toronto NFL team would be doomed to failiure, they'd have a better chance in nowhere'svile US

Toronto got dismal crowds out to pre-season NFL games. An NFL franchise is the dream of only a few wanna be’s in Toronto. And for the wrong reasons. Not because of the game itself, but to capitalize on the glitz.

Expansion to Toronto is a risk…even for the NFL.

THIS is the primary reason there wouldn't be an NFL team in Toronto and why the CFL will continue to survive.

Geez Smokes, if it was wrong for Baltimore to win the Cup how could it have made sense to put a team in Baltimore. You must admit we really supported the Stallions. I'm from Baltimore by the way and love the CFL game. We always had great attendance when the team was here. There also was alot of sad people when the team left.

The CFL went south in only 5 markets by the time the US expansion project was over - Baltimore (which successfully played for the Grey Cup and was moved to Montreal to restart the Alouettes, and the Ravens sent to Baltimore in the NFL), Birmingham (a WFL and XFL city), Sacramento, Memphis (Oilers moved here), Las Vegas, San Antonio, and Shreveport.

All of these cities have a minor-league feel about them, with Las Vegas having AAA and AFL teams, San Antonio with an NBA dynasty, Sacramento an NBA and AAA team, and Shreveport...well...Shreveport not so much :stuck_out_tongue:

Plus Baltimore and Memphis, which soon after the CFL retraction got NFL franchises.

This was an attempt by the CFL to establish itself in another market, sorta directly competing with the NFL but not really. It's the same as televising minor-league hockey in Canada.

It's hard to say if the project failed...the CFL recieved one strong new franchise (the Alouettes) out of it, and the NFL definitely benefitted from the CFL's exploration into the United States.

Money is the obvious answer to everything, but the CFL was trying to tap into markets that would embrace a team the most, those maybe with a shaky NFL alliance or - in Baltimore's case - a jaded football supporter. The NBA does this as well, jumping into smaller/untapped markets (Utah, Portland, San Antonio, Sacramento, Charlotte, Orlando, New Orleans) because it's a baby league compared to the other three. The NHL's recent expansion into lesser markets like Nashville and Columbus is for similar reasons. The NFL is in Jacksonville, New Orleans, San Diego, Buffalo, and Green Bay (although the Green Bay part is for tradition). Tampa is an emerging sports market, now, with two championship teams (and one seemingly about to fold, but no matter).

It's a shame that the Jets and the Nordiques are less than a blip on the NHL's radar, but once cost solvency takes effect, they can look into expansion again (and probably would be best as a 36 team league with smaller paychecks).

Who knows. You've read my rant :stuck_out_tongue:

Memphis “team” moved to Nashville, but they have the NBA now thanks to Vancouver, so they are fine.

Nah, move the fomer Jets back to the Peg and another team to QC, but do it after the rules chage back.

Mopar, I meant that it was just wrong for an American team to win the Grey Cup during its first yr or two of existence, when they weren't required to have any Canadians on the roster. And I think you misunderstood what I was saying when i said Baltimore was the only city that made sense for a franchise, if the CFL was indeed going to do it. Balltimore is a great football city, and they had been dying to get a new team ever since the Colts left. I felt of the 7 cities they put teams in, only Baltimore had any chance of being a success.

  1. Birmingham: Not going to happen. Demographics don't support it. Not enough money in the area. Plus its almost halfway between U of Alabama and Auburn U. It's the most diehard college football state in the country, so any pro team would struggle to find enough consistent support.

  2. San Antonio: Is in the heart of Cowboys' Country, which is the most popular NFL team in the US. Also have the Houston franchises to put up with, along with a strong college football presence.

  3. Sacrament: Cali fans are so frickle, plus you already had two NFL teams in that market, in the Raiders and Niners.

  4. Las Vegas: Fastest growing city in the US, but most of the citizens are transplants. The success on the franchise would be mainly depending on the tourists to spend a few bucks to go see a game. MLB is currently examining this market.

  5. Shreveport: Too small of a city to really support it. Sure Green Bay can, but that's a lot different. S'port would have to compete with a couple of NFL franchises, along with multiple college teams in the area. Too many teams in too small of a market.

  6. Memphis: Always wanted a team, but Memphis has always been a basketball city and not a football city. Not saying a football team couldnt survive in Memphis, i just think basketball is much more suited for the city.

And whoever said Memphis got an NFL franchise is incorrect. Bud Adams moved his team to Nashville, and they only played one season in Memphis at the Liberty Bowl until everything was worked out in Nashville. And Bud chose Nash over Memphis in the first place, because he didnt feel like Memphis would be that good of a market for a football team. More money and more passion for the sport in nash.

And I agree with all of you that say an NFL team couldn't make it in Toronto. I personally hope they never expand outside our borders down here. Nothing against you guys, just the way I feel. And I'm sure you feel the sameway about the NHL, and even I cringe when i see that miami and phoenix has a team. but i guess i'm being hyprocritcal since nashville has a team too. oh well, i love my preds too.

i dont care that the NHL has teams in the states...but i dont want to see the CFL there.....

u can take the NBA and the raptors back to america too. noone tries until the fourth quarter....they just walk up and down the court with no intensity or desire to win. and without vince carter, this team is a joke.

i'd say take baseball too, but the jays won the world series in '92 and '93, so if we lost them, we lost some of our they can stay.

Ha, most of us down here dont even car for the NBA. Just a bunch of hooligans. But I do love my baseball.

Keep the Raptors but chage them to the "Ontario Raptors" since must of the popularity of Basketball in Canada is mostly in Ontario. Plus, it would be unique to have a team in a professional american league named after a Canadian province. :wink:

There is talk of the preds moving to Winnipeg, but I want them to say in Nashville since out of Nashville's two pro teams, it caries the city's name in it and must have a great rivally with the Blues.

Winnipeg needs the fomer Jets back, no other NHL team will do but our Jets!!!

The main reason that expansion happened was because the league was on the verge of bankruptcy. All the teams but the Eskimos were so profoundly in debts that they needed to put up fundraising activities like car-washs and telethons to keep operating (no kidding).

When you want a franchise of any profesionnal league, there's a fee you need to pay to the league. In the CFL in the early 1990, it was around 5 millions $ I believe (but if anyone has the real number, fell free to correct this information).

Six new teams * 5 millions $ = the league got enough money to save itself from folding.

And the reason why expansion was made in the USA is because it would have been impossible to find six new owners in Canadian markets.

So that's the reason, was the league really in that trouble? I mean with Winnipeg doing so well they must have been in the green, right?

Nope. Only the mighty Edmonton was keeping its finances afloat (though it probably did not make much profits… still, the breakeven point is good enough when everyone else is in the red)

When did this come about? I haven't heard anything about this, and I keep up with the Preds very closely. That might have been the rumor talk up in the North, but no such rumor ever came about down here.

I follow the NHL very closely, and I've heard no such talk of Nashville moving north. I'd chalk this one up to wishful thinking.