Love affair with sub-par talent

The love affair with sub-par talent continues with this team. Every year for the last so many years I have gone to training camp and I only need to be at one practice to see what talent we have compared to the rest of the league. This year, just like the last so many years, the analysis was simple……?we are not there yet’!

I say this year over year over year. This year I said it again. Today’s game proves just that. Rain or no rain, our effort was listless, our talent level is just not there. Let’s look at what I am talking about, and in no particular order.

Matt Ingersoll, OT…..imports on this offensive line have to play OT, and to play this position the one thing you need, among many, is power and foot quickness. He doesn’t have it.

Joel Figueroa, OT……read above

**Yet they are here from day one, and its not their fault, it is the fault of management that keeps them on the team roster in some capacity (42, 46, PR or IL). Is their no import OT available that is more suitable to play in our league with better talent, and a realistic chance to play and succeed? Why keep players that are just not good enough. Ingersoll played one or two series today. Perhaps he is better at LT or inside, but regardless, the way the ratio works and considering our Canadians inside, he has to work at either Tackle position.

CJ Gable, RB….he may be able to block, he may be able to catch a pass out of the backfield, but he wouldn’t give us the running game we need inside and out. His speed is sub-par. Yet he is praised as always. We have Chevon Walker (now injured) that has super speed, can catch, but also cant be your everyday running back because he cant flourish between the tackles. We have Lindsey Lamar, he can give give you a better running game, can catch, but isn’t the best blocker. I am not picking on any one of these players, but simply proving that our best running back lately is Avon Cobourne but hes not on the roster. I am not saying we bring him back, I am saying we haven’t brought in the proper back, this means management falls in love with the wrong players. Again this isn’t me picking on Gable or any other player, it is to prove management’s love affair with current talent.

Eric Norwood, DE….let’s hope we kept Boudreaux out of this game because of an injury because if it was just to see what this guy can do, then we made another bad judgement call. Norwood will never become a Boudreaux, and I am not saying Boudreaux is the next (fill in the blank), but he has to play because he has greater upside and potential that needs to come to the forefront.

Erik Harris..LB, DB…..Coach Austin loves him. I even like him, but hes not starter material, so why use up that Import spot with someone who cant be? Is there no other option?

Hinds, DB….had regressed throughout last year and regressed through training camp this year, yet he starts last week, and then finally they realize he is no longer a starter, and start Bucknor (who also isn’t a starter).

James Patrick..S….what is the love affair with this guy? He was released by Saskatchewan because he lost a step, and he has lost two more steps since hes been here. Is it because Stephen is still not ready to play at Safety or no one else can play that position? If so, lets not hurt the team and find someone, because Patrick is done!!!

Ray Brown….DB….probably a guy that is a playmaker but we do everything in our power to not get him on the roster. I don’t buy the ratio excuse, especially when he will bring more than someone like Erik Harris would, or even Bussey, yet they are on the roster. Brown is as big or bigger than both, and has the capability to play linebacker if needed and his customary position in the secondary.

I am not picking on any player, just relaying my thoughts, and the thoughts of many others out there.

These are just a few examples (I can add many more) of filling up our complete team roster with some players that just ‘CANT PLAY’ in this league. CANT PLAY means players that cant make a difference.

So what am I saying? Let’s raise the bar here. You are only going to challenge Calgary, Saskatchewan, B.C., etc if you start thinking that we cant just settle for average players, but we have to bring in players that can play and be impactful. I will never buy the rationale that these players are in the NFL, that they don’t want to play up in Canada, or whatever, because if that is the case and they use that as a cop out, then whats the point of hiring and paying a management staff that only will bring excuses.

I am a big fan of Austin as our leader, but today he needed to coach better. Within 3 minutes, Edmonton had a 3rd down and were punting, and Austin didn’t call a time out until near the end of the 20 second run down. Now that didn’t make a difference in the game, but you have to coach to give your team a chance to win. We wasted twenty seconds for no reason. Not a major thing today, but lets hope it doesn’t happen when we need those twenty extra seconds!!!

Also, and this is for OC Tommy Condell….We had 3rd and 2 near the end of the game and we called a swing pass to Gable. Apart from the fact that it wasn’t executed properly, why run that play to Gable and not Lamar? Gable wont out run a DB or make him miss with his elusiveness, but Lamar might!!!! The end result was he didn’t get the 3rd down converted.

So lets get better by searching for Quality players and not just fill ins, lets eliminate some of the talent on our Practice Roster and Injury Lists (when they are eligible to come off the list and are healthy) who simply cant make a difference on our team. If we don’t beat Winnipeg this week, we may be looking at an 0-5 start with Saskatchewan back to back on our schedule. They played really well against a very good Calgary team. We are not a ‘very good’ team.

There is an urgency to turn this around and it’s the entire organization that has to wake up, not just the players.

IT seems that Ken Austin is a pass orientated coach. There was no mention from him after the game about our lack
of a running game. Charles was the difference for Edmonton then you compare the offences.So a old friend of mine
(Russ Jackson) said to me " you need a balanced attack to be successful in this game" And that is what we lack.
Time to find a RB that has wheels and can block.


Can't disagree with the rest of your post. But that play was to Lamar, not Gable. Cuthbert & Forde got it wrong.

100% correct...

I've been saying this for a long time...The talent evaluation on this team is sub par at best and it's so obvious when you look at other teams...

Frankly,I felt this was going to be a lost year and I still do.This coaching staff inherited a mess,at least on the defensive side of the ball,and it's going to take a whole year to properly evaluate who needs to be here and who doesn't.Sadly,if the relatively recent past is anything to go on,no one should be holding out a lot of hope that things are going to change...

AVON? ..."your not saying, bring him back"...? Well, I will. Bring him back...sure it will take a bit for him to get ready to play, but his presence alone will spark this team.

I feel the team made a BIG MISTAKE with the way they treated him...TREAT HIM LIKE THE PROFESSIONAL THAT HE IS.

8) The only reason he wasn't invited back woody, was because of his salary !!
   What did they have to lose otherwise, by not inviting him back to training camp???  They could have offered him a reduced 
    contract, and he could have taken it or said forget it.

    If he got beat out at training camp, then so be it !!

EXACTLEY...but what happened even before that...they cut him then bring him back. Vinny's got it right. How much money have we got sitting on practice roster and how much would it take to have him on the roster?

We've got people on this team that would have a hard time playing "arena".

I'm not happy at all with what has transpired over the last few years and I'm not even discussing the debacle that is our new stadium build and this "Guelph situation" :roll:

We have a real problem in getting and keeping good players.

WOW ..Ok I agree with the point that it seems that the Ticats don't set as a high of a bar for quaiity of players coming into camp . I think it must have to do with the fact that they do not have as much money kicking aroudn as other teams . There is a cap but that doe snot pertain to the cost of scouts and player evaluation and bringing in players . I think since teh ticats avarage about 24,000 per game verus other teams liek sask or BC that average say 40, 000 that they have more money to spend on player developemnt and evaluation .

I can count on one hand how many great pass rushers and runninmg backs we have had in 20 years .
I think some of the new gusy deserve a 2knd shot Marshall , Norwood , Figueroa , Bussey as they all have great track records ..just look them up and look on YOUTUBE .

In the off season we needed to improve our pass rush and db's . We haev done almsot nothing about the pass rush ( why !! )
Why did we dump Peguese ..the one guy that looked like a pass rusher.

yet we have attmpted to improve the cb's bringing in Steinauer and Mcollough, Patrick , Breaux etc ...

I Don't think you can compare Ingersoll and Figueroa ..Figueroa is better at thi spoint

What we need is a real middle Linebacker ( LAWRENCE , BOWMAN, BUSSEY ) and move the others back please .
We need a good cover corner to play where we are playing Hinds and Bucknor....Maybe pout Hobbs there for now and Brown back to halfback and Stephen at Safety to replace Patrick. I have seen enough of Patrick to knwo he is done .

Let's give Norwood another chance next week. He had less than a weeks practice and had never seen the CFL before. He has good speed and lots of sacks at south carolina and has played some NFL .

We need to start the search for a true running back as GABLE is not the guy and nor is Lamar or Walker .

Last game also showed us again that Giguere is really just a passenger . and our import receivers are likely the worst in the league ....Burris was lost without having Fantuz as an emergency option . These guys don't come back to the ball and can't get seperation . Poor Burris ...
I like Eric Harris too but i am not sure at what position ? Maybe safety ..he looked loast elsewhere .

I don't liek what i see from Bulcke ...Might be time to swtch up the ratio ? plesius could be a ratio breaker and play WIl or the middle and then go with Norwood, Davis, Moore , Marshall as the dline and stpehen as the other non import sat safety ..Marshall excelled at DE in college not DT .

can we call back Peguese ? :slight_smile:

If we can get Stala off the 9 game earlier ..i'd start him in the slot with Charbonneau coming in a bit and pu Giguere on the bench ....We have seen Giguere long enough now ..he can be out finess model for ticats clothing .

So Tillman ...Please be on the lookout for a few running backs , A shutdown cornerback and A pass rusher or two...I know asking alot

[b][quote="gerbear9"]WOW ..Ok I agree with the point that it seems that the Ticats don't set as a high of a bar for quaiity of players coming into camp . I think it must have to do with the fact that they do not have as much money kicking aroudn as other teams . There is a cap but that doe snot pertain to the cost of scouts and player evaluation and bringing in players .

gerbear9...please note that the team has lost a pile of money and there isn't anything saying that next year with a new smaller stadium will be any better :roll: THE TICATS DO NOT AVERAGE 24,000 per game.

For the record...our average for "Gueph" right now is less than 13,000 in the seats. (see yesterday's game)

I really don't think it's a matter of "money" on the coaching side, but rather an "attitude" or lack of it for winning.

Bob Young, I thank you for all you have done to try and save this team but please, speak to your management people and tell them that "surviving is not winning fan support". Nothing beats winning for removing the stench of the past few years, but we have gotten into a rut and I for one am not going to stand back and say..."oh, it's early in the year, or they will get better with more games".

They need to bring in some WINNING ATTITUDE.

Same old team as last yr. with only new faces. A D-fence that a mack truck could drive through with out being touched. An offence which is a hit and miss. Never know what to expect. No running game. Cant put pressure on opposing quarter backs and a secondary that cant figure out who should cover who. Other than that my beloved tiger-cats are just fine. See you in the Grey=cup .

Get ready for a whole lot more of that because when you have a 24 player bus squad (practice roster an 1 game IR) that's anywhere from 350k to a million bucks depending how long you let that go on of SMS money your throwing away. Tillman's method of building football team has been an utter disaster since he's been working under an SMS.

It's not about money when it comes to scouting. Seriously & Honestly. No other team is spending more when it comes to FA camps in the US or scouts or agent graft & grease ... it's a very level playing field when it comes to scouting in the US for the CFL.

Now ... if you wanna talk regions or specialties ... or good fortune / bad fortune ... that's another discussion.

But firstly ... As has been mentioned here many times before ... Guys like Hickman & Thigpen & McIntyre were scouted and recruited here ... they had success ... they left to greener pastures.

So is our US Scouting TOO good? Should we aim our eyes lower towards guys who won't leave? I may very well be wrong and am open to correction, but I do believe the TiCats have the Most players to leave for the US as any other team in the CFL over the past few years. (Williams, Thigpen, Hickman, McIntyre, ... )

I will say this though ... the TiCats Head US Scout is Danny McManus ... A QB ... An Offensive Guy ... Offense is his fiber ... his being ... he knows what to look for and what he likes on the Offensive side of the ball.

Perhaps its time for Hamilton to hire a SEC D Assistant for Danny?

  1. Stala ain't coming back early. Besides ... You want Dave over Bowman? ... Didn't think so.
  2. Marshall deserves a 2nd chance ... no one else.
  3. Bulcke had good push. Watch the tape. Mistake was not dressing Moore beside him.
  4. Norwood had his shot. I'm guessing he's at 5 Points in Columbia SC by now.
  5. Scott is done ... Boudreaux was taught his lesson ... He"s the best DE on the team ... Play like it.

Getting used to that 1 yard is often harder than it seems for Dlinemen. The distance is a mile. The space is enormous. As a DE, you get off and you meet a OT ready to strike and put his paws on you. Its so different that FBS or FCS of NFL.

"3) Bulcke had good push. Watch the tape. Mistake was not dressing Moore beside him."

My concern about Bulcke is not against the pass but against the run. But I hope he does work out for ratio reasons.

Not Giguere's fault hes being lined up at wide side WR which is the worst of all receiver spots. Hank threw 4 balls his way and he caught 3.

I have believed this for a few years now and reason above just reinforce this belief. The Tiger-Cats are set up to loose money and be a tax write off for Bob.

As long as Bob is the owner, the Cats will never be better than mediocre.

It's as simple as that.

I was disappointed during the winter that they didn't sign one big name free agent a CFL veteran from another team that could help our team ,for example a D End with cfl experience would have been a must but it looks like they are trying to mould rookies for the long haul which won't help the gotta win now philosophy :o

I think what you're saying is utter nonsense.

It's as simple as that.

You are entitled to your opinion.

I think that's very possible...

I see a commitment to branding...I see a commitment to marketing...I guess that all falls under the title of "Salesmanship"...

What I do not see,and have never seen,in the last decade was a true commitment to sustained winning.

Mark my words,once the new stadium is up and running (within a 2 to 3 span after opening) Mr. Young will put this team up for sale.And we will be no better,win/loss wise,than we are now...