Lemon is now a Argo
Saturday, July 2, 2016 THAT DIDN'T TAKE LONG: LEMON REQUESTS TRADE Scott Mitchell of the Calgary Sun reported Friday afternoon that Saskatchewan Roughriders defensive end Shawn Lemon has requested a trade.
This news comes on the heels of a Justin Dunk report earlier this week that the relationship between Lemon and the Roughriders has soured.
It's somewhat shocking because Lemon was one of the first free agents signed by the new Chris Jones regime this off-season, in fact on February 18. According to Mitchell, Lemon signed a deal in the neighbourhood of $175,000 per season with an up-front bonus of $85,000.
When asked about this story Friday evening, the Roughriders confirmed the trade request and further responded that they are looking for players who fit in with the "best team concept".
After Thursday's 30-17 loss to Toronto, Rider Coach & GM Chris Jones said "We don't deal with personalities".
It's believed Lemon is not pleased with his amount of playing time in the Chris Jones defense. Lemon was the Designated Import in Thursday's game and thus his plays were limited.
Mitchell further reported the Calgary Stampeders would be willing trade partners however as of Saturday morning, the Riders say there's been little or no interest for Lemon league-wide.
Was upset about limited action ad turned sour...I get it...he was signed as a starter...he lost out but I can understand why he would want to be moved.
The 85k hit hurts...but good to see an issue dealt with swiftly. I will give Lemon credit...he pushed back on the rumors before the game and put the distractions aside for the team in attempting to do this.
They picked up Mitchell Gale @QB
,,,the bigger win...they picked up Matt Sewell...a first round pick in 2013....seems they actually did pretty well in this trade.
Sounds like a few teams approached the Riders on Lemon...this seems like it was a pretty good trade overall though.
Hate that the 85k cap hit was there...obviously if they felt there was any chance Lemon would get beat out they wouldn't have done that. Definitely one for the negative column though on the brass, even though I liked picking him up in the first place...bonus aside. Wish he would have panned out, because he is a solid player.
I would say the 2 moves that they were way too trigger happy on were
- Price...they seemed to hit panic mode as soon as they came in and made a poor move. I didn't hate picking up Price...but the signing bonus was bad. I get it...they needed to give him cash to reduce his salary in a renegotiation...his actual pricetag was not bad but I would have just assumed they passed on him knowing FA season was coming and they were doing a lot of mini camps
- Lemon...i liked the pick up...i didn't even hate the bonus though it did make me cringe a bit...they needed to ink a DE for under 200k. It amazes me that Lemon was beat out 2 times over....he is still a solid player.
these types of moves better not happen in year 2....they go in the negative column no doubt, but if they stop after year 1, fine.
Here is the link above
Is this a good deal ? Conditional pick and Lemon for Matt Sewell and Mitchell Gale. I once read there was a large signing bonus when Lemon signed. I know were in a desperate situation when it comes to quarter backs, especially if DD gets cranked. But I don't really see anything that points to a great QB here but maybe 3rd spot. I know theirs some very good football opinions on this site and would like to catch your take on this move. I'm scratching my head and sure glad I never bought a new lemon jersey.
The coup is Sewell. Gale is a bonus. Sewell is 1st round pick
Hard to say much on the conditional pick as the terms are not out there yet. these are often 6-8th round picks and the conditions still need to be met
The 85k bonus sucks...but at least a bad situation is dealt with....and they have a guy who look like he could be solid making less that what Lemon would have made the remainder of the season
IMO the trade is solid as heck....having paid the bonus sucks of course...but that was gone either way. They could have kept Lemon around as a 3rd string DE getting nominal play barring injury or traded him and got something....really it stings the same in either situation.
I feel for Lemon's situation. He came in as a big name with a solid contract and was going to be a large part of the D overhaul....he was out there talking up the Riders a pile and doing a whole lot of media stuff....sh!t happened and he fell on the charts (some of it from the hit in camp, some of it other player play)...but I do respect why he would say he would prefer a trade in that scenario....I know he is a a super vocal player so the fact he went to Jones and seemingly put getting moved out there in a positive manner and never hit the public up with his displeasure of the situation speaks well for him. It is too bad...I feel like he could have potentially worked himself back into the starting lineup
Thanks Depo. I always appreciate reading your opinion on here, maybe I jumped the gun a bit here. I see hes a big man, 26 6'8" 335lb. Perhaps if the price was right, that signing bonus won't hurt as bad. Especially if he pans out and sticks around a few years. Then that lost bonus would seem quite distant down the road. Thought maybe the deal was to favor a QB, which can be a touchy subject with many and were still in a delicate situation to say the least.
man that did not take long, and me thinks we got the better deal... but we still need a #2 QB and we do not even have a # 3 in jmo
if Sewell pans out...no doubt it is a win....he was projected to be a Tackle...and I believe it was said he might even be able to progress into a blinside OT...if that happens it is a major win....but Barker is not a fool either and neither of these guys have been on their gameday plans...3 years in Sewell is a big "if"...and likely tied to the conditional pick
Sewell/JSJ/Guy....that is 2 players that have been projected as potential OTs. Not a bad situation for prospect at all....and could mean trade bait for one of them.
I think it is win win though...Toronto gets a solid DE at a cap friendly price......question is if he is going to be traded tomorrow...I could see it. I know Huf was interested in him and it sounds like the Esks might have been....that one could be very interesting if they actually are. They gave up 2 players that were not in their immediate plans and got a game ready impact DE. I tend to think that Sewell became expendable to them because of Bourke...and then they drafter a prospect behind him....they had experience and were only going to roll with 1 prospect....so really, Toronto didn't give up a lot from their perspective.
Well I guess that is the best that could be done. Still I have to wonder how this went South so fast. I mean Lemon was the poster child (literally ) of the new regime and it seems that Jones got a hate on for him pretty fast. I get he did something stupid in tc but seriously if Jones is a hold a grudge kind of guy then that may also be an issue down the road with other players. I mean seriously Lemon didn't get a chance to show if he was better or worse then the new guys other then in practice possibly but when you pay out that kind of up front money you better be damn sure the new guys are all that, otherwise you really look like an idiot.
I have to laugh at the comments on the other Rider site about how Lemon is a bad apple and Lemon is a cry baby. I know the guy likes the social media and yet he kept his mouth shut about all this. That to me says he took the high road in all of this and good on him. If anything the Riders did the talking and not in a positive way.
I'm glad he went to Toronto and hopefully he sticks there because if they in turn trade him to the West we may see just how bad he actually is.
Still ticked about the two cap hits and anyone can spin it any way you want but in my opinion when you cough up over a 100k in cap space that is just inexcusable. That is a good RB's salary right there, or certainly the bulk of it anyways.
I have a gut feeling Jones is a bit of a d*** and if anyone doesn't agree with him or ticks him off then he throws a bit of a hissy fit. I know it will be spun that the new guys are so much better and that may be true but until they actually produce game in and game out that is just speculation.
It is going to be pretty hard for the team to gel though when your constantly moving players in and out. Yes I know we are trying to find the right guys after the mass clean out from last year. Still its looking like it could be another very long season.
Too bad we didn't trade for a punter. Now that is a spot that we really suck at.
From what has been put out there there was no hateon from management at all...the camp indecent was apparently water under the bridge...but the immediate aftermath of it all was that AC Leonard practiced with the #1s for a bit and looked really good....it kinda evolved from there. Lemon was excelling at pass rushing...perhaps the best of the 3 to be honest...but other aspects of his game were behind...like sweeping wide and rolling back. Still a great DE....but he was surpassed.
Shame that some are apparently calling Lemon a bad apple on this...he was not...he was obviously brought in to be the #1 guy...if he had heavy rotations he would be fine...but not really playing I don't blame him for opening the door for getting out. I have heard he handled it very well...that he did not demand a trade...that he didn't even ask for a trade...he merely stepped forward and said that if he was not the right fit that a trade would be understandable and he would support it. That is one of your top guys not being 100% happy...obviously...but also stepping up and tabling stuff in the proper manner.
I guess some people need to make a scapegoat out of any situation...and that is a shame to hear they are doing that somewhere else. Lemon put a big shout out to Ridernation after the move...he has been classy through the whole thing IMO.
The source on the initial story was 2 particular GMs that I know of with absolute 100% certainty....one from the east, one from the west....there may have been others....when approached after the game the Riders confirmed there was some shopping...it wasn't them who leaked it.
No doubt Jones is a hard arse....which is why he stated meshing of the minds from the time a guy is filling out his contract and talking to him in initial sitdowns is so huge (ie...does he look at him when they talk...does he answer everything...etc)....Jones knows he is a strong personality and a hardarse and so that kind of stuff is more important than it is to a guy like say Ken Miller.
I don't like that Lemon is gone...he is a solid DE...but it is making the best of the situation I guess. The Argos won this trade here and now....but if Sewell pans out it is a major win. He has never done much good for the Argos...but a change of coaches might click for him...or moving from T to G might work...he has never shown he can compete at a pro level to date...but time will tell. I would suspect the conditional pick is tied to him in some fashion.
Lemon was excelling at pass rushing...perhaps the best of the 3 to be honest...but other aspects of his game were behind...like sweeping wide and rolling back.You see and this isn't what I want a DE to be doing at least on a regular basis. I want our D line to be collapsing the pocket and getting massive heat on the qb. You have lb's and db's for covering that is their job after all. If you have guys that can't do it and you have to rely on the D line dropping back into coverage well then your hooped. Oh sure it works once in a while when offenses are not looking for it but you watch what happens against a team like the Eskimos if they use this dropping back crap. Reilly will have a hey day either running the ball or passing it. I can guarantee you that they will not be taken by surprise by it because we used it so often against Toronto. I mean your paying these big boys to get to the qb and throw off his timing. If this isn't what they are doing then a decent qb especially one that is a threat to run, is going to exploit it and fairly easily too. We did this lame *** band aid defense last year because we didn't have a good mlb that could stop the run so our D line had to hold back and try and plug holes. That worked well for us didn't it.
I saw this same kind of garbage from Hamilton last week using Chick in coverage and how much pressure did they get? Basically squat and they got picked apart for doing it.
To me it shows weakness and no confidence in guys being able to do the job. Other teams see it and can smell the blood in the air and they will attack relentlessly. IF they stick to this kind of game plan I can see Edmonton putting up 40+ points without breaking a sweat.
Frankly it is really disappointing as I thought Jones would be one d coordinator that would want to show aggression on the d instead of this namby pamby weak *** crap.
I just feel all this experimenting with guys out of position and guys not playing the role they are intended for is a joke. Again do it in practice so if you have to or want to surprise a team once in a while. then fine but to be relying on linemen to drop into coverage consistently is about as intelligent as something Cory would have come up with. Now that is a really scary thought.
Sorry...a lot of teams drop their DEs back in a modern D. It is pretty common. Having your DEs covering the flats adds a huge level of unpredictability to the D. Jones will pull everything from this to a cover 0. It seemed to work pretty well for the Esks last year when they surrendered the fewest points in the league, were in the top 2 in most D categories and had the #1 rated D in the league.
The point of this D is shifting looks and it opens the doors to different blitz and coverage packages. When a DE rolls into coverage in the QB is felt wondering if they are bringing in a LB or if they are doubling someone up....getting the QB thinking about this is a win. It is the same reason he mixes 2 and 3 man fronts...they let you disguise what is happening.
IMO making a DE one dimensional can be a huge mistake. The Riders didn't blitz a lot in the game and brought 2 and 2 man fronts a fair bit...they maintained pretty good pressure with that.
Last year it was done because when Chamblin said he wanted to have an aggressive D he was literally trying to build a D like Jones in Edmonton...he said as much going into the season on a few occasions...problem was he didn't understand it good enough and didn't have the talent level required.
All this said...I believe this is where Jones wanted to use Lemon and why it sucks that he is gone...he would be an excellent rotation on passing downs as a pass rush specialist essentially
There are lots of different ways about going about it...but it is tough to argue with Jones track record on D....might not be how I would run a D...but clearly what he does works.
Some teams may do it but other then Edmonton last year I didn't see a lot of teams do it with success. Look at last weeks results. Hamilton and the Riders used this "floating defense" and they lost. Ottawa didn't use it Calgary didn't use it and BC didn't either and they won.
I think the reason our d got away with only rushing two or three guys is because Toronto does not have a killer running game and yet they still managed some big runs and Ray is not a mobile qb. Now you get a team like Edmonton that has a good running back plus a mobile qb that can also throw the ball and you are mostly likely to be in a world of trouble if you allow him time to do either.
I still say if they stick with this defense and do not have at least a 4 man rush for 85-90 % of the game then the Eskimos will go over the 40 point mark and possibly even the 50 point mark. In other words we will be slaughtered.
You get into a game against Messam where if you are rushing only two or three guys there is a very good possibility of some big holes opening up. Once he gets a head of steam up then your in real trouble. You have to stop a back like Messam in the backfield before he gets 4 or 5 steps otherwise he will tare you apart physically. Winnipeg is not a great example but he basically ran at will against them and he will against most teams if you do not wrap him up early. Rushing 2-3 guys does not give you a great chance at doing that. Just saying I think it is a stupid defensive scheme to use on a regular basis. Yes throw it in as a wrinkle every now and then but relying on it? Well I guess we will see won't we.
I would anticipate seein gmore for man looks after game 2...not before.
The Riders didn't lose because of their d last week. They had one bust in coverage but other than that looked pretty good.
They came out big time flat in the 1st quarter, growing pains, I will give that, the D slowly improved as the game went on...
Not many defenses are going to stop a team when the special teams gives up a run back tonthr 5 yard line.
Then Moniz fumbles and it goes for a TD. Only 7 first half points were on and 16 total were on the defense. They will win more often than not if the d plays like that so long as they improve ST and cut out the turn overs.
Yes the defense played well except a couple of break downs. It was Toronto and while they are not a bad team let's be honest here Ray is little no threat to run and their running game is not exactly lights out great either. In fact their running game is just about the same as ours and that is not good.
Edmonton is not Toronto though and Reilly is far more mobile then Ray and their running game is not shabby either. Like I said if the Riders use a 2-3 man more then the odd time they will be killed and killed badly I will add. Reilly will feast on no pressure with the option to run all game.
If I were to lay odds on this game knowing the Riders are going to rush only a couple I would say the Riders losing by more then 24 points is about 75% and Edmonton scoring more then 40 points is about 60 % and that is being kind to the Riders. If on the other hand if the Riders use the 2-3 man front very sparingly I say we will still lose but it will be less then 2 scores and I lay odds of being about 80% if they went that route.
Like I said time will tell.
OL Matt Sewell is now contemplating retirement. This rumor started to surface a few hours ago posted on 3DN. Sure hope thats all it is, a nasty rumor. But theirs a saying, where theirs smoke theirs fire, and it usually shows itself quickly.
lol...good times! wow...doesn't want to leave home?