Not quite. I would put Pierce above Joseph in athletic ability, and only slightly behind him in QB ability, and that solely due to the fact that Pierce doesn't have the experience yet.
You are joking, right?
I suspect Kerry's arm is much stronger than Pierce's, or we could let them armwrestle or lift weights or something.
But what is absolutely for certain, is that even on a gimpy knee, Kerry Joseph would run circles around Buck Pierce.
Remember. We aren't saying who is the best QB here, just the best athlete. Pierce isn't as good a QB as Joseph either, but in pure athletic terms?
It's not even a contest.
There are likely 20 QBs in the league who are better athletes than Buck. Maybe more.
Jarious Jackson is the most athletic QB the Lions have.
I'll name a few more for you.
Richie Williams, Banks, Bishop, Nealon Greene, Rocky Butler. Damon Allan. Henry Burris.
Yeah Sorry HWGLL, gotta agree with Arius on this one, however i think 20 Qbs is kinda a large amount… KJ has that strongest arm in the CFL next to ichael Bishop. He is also a better overall athlete, In My VERY humble opinion.
Remember, I am counting guys who are good athletes, but couldn’t be QBs to save their lives–guys like Marcus Brady, or Spergen Wynn.
I’m already at 10. How about Durant…11…Glenn…12…
I think the point is, Buck might be a good QB someday, though I think I detect way to much bandwagon jumping on that issue, he doesn’t spring to mind when I think “athlete”. I envision him as a Dickenson/McManus/Calvillo type. Okay…he might be more athletic than Danny Mac, but you get my point.
Joseph ha ha ha ha I agree with you on Pierce! Joseph ha ha ha ha that is too funny!
u forget the most important stat. Glenn is also 9-5 as a starter. i dont see how that is a back up quality qb
Calvillo is probably the east all-star quarterback instead of Glenn. Both quarterbacks have close effiency ratings but Calvillo has more yards.
BC has the best pass offense in the league, and Pierce is the best young quarterback. He is closer to Dunigan than Dickenson in ability.
For quarterbacks, mental ability is more important than physical ability. Lancaster and Flutie weren’t the greatest athletes. Great athletes such as Bishop and Greene aren’t the best quarterbacks.
calvillo has more yards only cuz glenn was injured and missed a few games...glenn has a better win/loss record than calvillo, and should be eastern QB all-star.
Team win-loss record is not as reliable as individual efficency rating in measuring quarterbacks. Otherwise Ray would be one of the worst quarterbacks. If Ray is all star, then Calvillo should be all star too.
Well, if efficiency rating is what counts, then once again, Glenn should be the all-star because as of right now, he has a better rating than Cavillo.
It will be between Cavillo and Glenn--Allan is not in the mix; Maas sucks--and it may very well be decided by which team gets the home playoff game. But as both could, that might not do it either. But some media when voting will not vote Glenn because he missed several games, others will vote for him, because they will extrapolate how good his season could have been, plus realize he likely came back at least 2 games before he should and played through that injury. A bit of a mixed bag there.
One thing that should be considered, is that Montreal has both better receivers and a better o-line.
Plus, if Montreal finishes third, then that means Glenn stepped up in his last game of the year, and Cavillo did not, which will leave the voters thinking Glenn all the way.
If you want to use those criteria to make your argument that Shivers is/was a better GM than Tillman, that is fine. And if you go further and exclude all of Tillman's successes and all of Shiver's failures, it makes your argument even stronger LOL
It wasn't really my intention to compare the past records of Tillman of Shivers. I was looking to the future and merely wondered if Tillman would do a better job of recruiting QBs for the Riders than Shivers. It shouldn't be too difficult to do so as the bar was set quite low, but we will have to wait and see.
In comaring the two, you cannot just look at wins/losses. That was my point.
We only won 5 games in Roy's first year, but I saw it as a very successful year, not a failure, so I am not eliminating Roy's failures, just the win/loss record so many people remain focused on.
Alternatively, Tillmans only year with a winning record, and a home play-off game, was not particularly a "Tillman" success.
Sure he got a Grey Cup ring, but he had very little to do with that success, and they ran him out of town the next year.
So really, all I am doing is saying wins/losses are not the only factor when assessing how good or how bad a job is being done.
Roy did a very good job in his tenure as Rider GM.
So continuing the comparison, in Tillman's career, he has never brought in as much talent as Roy, and he has only rarely ever found a fresh QB. He likes to find veteran guys and in that case, sure, he brought Austin to BC., etc.
But the track record says, Tillman is not as good as Roy at finding talent, nor is he as good as Roy at finding QBs.
And I actually quite disagree with you that the bar was set low by Roy in the QB department.
Last year, Nealon Greene, Henry Burris and Kevin Glenn were all starting QBs in the CFL. 3 out of 9 teams.
At one point, all 3 of those guys were Riders at the same time.
But Roy can't find QBs.....
And I am more than happy with Joseph, Crandell and Butler this year....
But Roy can't find QBs.
I don't understand the criticism.
Another one that gets me.
I constantly hear that Roy and Danny tied their wagon to Nealon and they have sunk or swum on that one decision.
Do people understand that Nealon only started 2 full seasons out of 7 for the Riders (and played very well in those years) and then when he was not playing well in a third year, he got the hook and was traded the next year?
That is not sinking or swimming, that is making change when needed, but not making change for its own sake.
Again, I do not understand the criticism.
Roy set the bar very high, very high indeed.
Nothing less than a homeplay-off game (or two, or three), and a Grey Cup in his next 3 years will allow him to get over that bar.
Glenn would have to pass for over 1000 yards in the BC game to be the east all star quarterback. Efficency ratings for Calvillo and Glenn are so close that the difference is statistically insignificant. The deciding factor should be yards. Real accomplishments count and not what might have been. Team win-loss record shouldn't count because quarterbacks don't deserve all the team credits. Otherwise Ray would be a worser quarterback than Allen. Even if Calvillo doesn't play another game, he deserves to be east all star.
I guess we will see soon enough.
It is between Cavillo and Glenn, as both Allan and Maas were not very good this year.
But I like how efficiency should decide it, until it is pointed out that Glenn is actually slightly ahead of Cavillo. Now it is just yardage, though Glenn missed 4 games.
Why not win/loss record?
Glenn has the opportunity to win more games than Cavillo even though he started fewer.
It is no more justified to say wins don't count because that is a team effort, than it is to say passing stats don't count because without a good o-line and good recievers, no QB can put up good numbers. So passing stats are a "team" thing as well.
And looking at it from that perspective, Montreal has better receivers and a better line. So therefore, it makes Glenn's accomplishments even more remarkable.
But we will see. Burris was the all-star QB in the West last year, and may be again this year. Despite the fact that Ray puts up better numbers each year and is, undoubtably, the better QB.
Simply put, it is up to a few sports writers and their opinions and there are politics involved. An example of that is, the writers from Sask. will surely vote for Burris again because they think he walks on water.
Cavillo will get votes because...well because he is Cavillo. Some people won't vote for Glenn because they thought he wasn't a good QB at the beginning of the season, and to vote for him now means admitting they were wrong.
Mitchell Blair, a media guy in Regina would vote for Damon Allan. He actually thinks he should win the MVP award again this year.
So I would vote Glenn.
You would vote Cavillo.
Neither of us get a vote, so it is moot.
i also vote glenn....moot again.
I think its gotta be Kevin Glenn
I know I know!.. Get Pierce
Well somehow during the week, despite neither of them actually playing, the chart on the cfl homepage has been changed putting Calvillo ahead of Glenn in QB rating.
Try to figure that one out. :?
hmm your right, thats wierd considering niether have played since they last updated it. i smell fish