Ivor Wynne vs. the Red Herring

I should also add that Ivor Wynne Stadium does deserve a seperate thread. It deserves this respect (our respect) if nothing else than to be jumbled into 200+ pages of east vs west discussions.

But now that we are talking soccer here and not track and field, we don’t have to pass on the games. Why can’t soccer be played at IW?

Yet at every single game there are thousands of drunks (me sometimes included). How is that any different.

Good for Brother Michael. I wouldn't mind attending council with him that day.

What do you think of a complete rebuild while retaining certain historical elements like Soldier Field?

That place is an absolute joke. Looks foolish.

I have never been to Wrigley in Chicago, but Fenway seems to be doing what you mentioned above. It allows the history of the grounds and the area to remain, while keeping certain aspects of the existing structure.

I don't know a lot about Soldier Fields history except what I just browsed through just now.

I just viewed the Flash slide show for Soldier Field which is pretty cool, but the re-design seemed to build a new stadium within the old one, with the pillars that made it what it was, lost on the exterior. They towered above the old stadium, yet are lost from site in the new design. Again, never been there and just know what I just read, but perhaps it was 'overly' retrofitted.

We have already started making some nice changes like the scoreboard (5th largest in north america), and other visual changes that clean up the old girl nicely.

I agree...Your reference to Wrigley Field and Fenway Park is spot on.Sadly,I think those that think newer is always better have won the day,and now we are just waiting to see where this "new and wonderful" creation is going to take place.

In the meantime,it might be time to contact someone like the guy running this site

http://www.ballparks.phanfare.com/9999/

It would be nice to see Ivor Wynne permanently held up on a website for long lost ball parks from yesterday...

I have a feeling,when the time comes,we will be wishing that we still could see a game at a place like Ivor Wynne.

That was sort of my intention when I first purchased the Save Ivor Wynne Stadium dot com URL. More preserving the history, but then it evolved into so much more and it's great to see all the support. Just read this piece a few moments ago. http://mystoneycreek.blogspot.com/2010/08/how-i-see-pan-am-stadium-debacle.html

"Sadly,I think those that think newer is always better have won the day." Who are they? Obviously they have mande many of us feel like that's what we want.

There is a quote on the Go East Mountain site form one NFL exec talking about how much he thinks about competing with techology - big flat screen television in peoples living rooms vs going to a live game. I think they are truly forgetting that history and a true connection to a stadium means more than many think it does. Going to Fenway finally after all these years, made me realize even more how much history means. How many people go there just because of this fact alone? Makes you wonder.

I'm a Bears fan...Soldier Field has been absolutely ruined.It now looks like some sort of avant garde space ship.The Roman columns are invisble once inside and are dwarfed on the outside.

Do you know that one of the reasons for refurbishing the stadium was because the seating capacity of the original Soldier Field was too small(65,000,give or take)...I believe it's even less now,in an uglier stadium...

The old stadium was a classic football stadium...The "new and improved" Soldier Field is a putrid abomination!

I agree...

Here's a prime example...By all acounts,Comiskey Park II in Chicago, (it's now called Cellular Field,because it's all about the branding :roll: ) is a far better stadium than it's predecessor...It has all the modern amenities of a modern ballpark...Un obstructed view,big video screen,great sightlines etc.But beiang a White Sox fan,I always read on the website that it really does'nt have the character of the old ballpark,and alot of people have buyers remorse almost 20 years after the fact because of that.Here's a prime example of that...

If you went to a White Sox game at the old park,the farthest seat in the upper deck behing home plate was still closer to the field than the nearest seat in the upper deck at the new park.

We are going to lost that intimacy once Ivor Wynne comes down.And alot of people are going to get a case of that buyers remorse I'm talking about....The seats will too far from the field...They will be overpriced...We're going to get jammed up for parking...And all of this will be on top of a still lousy football team,if the track record of this ownership is any indication...

I'm just saying people need to stop and think for a moment and ask themselves is progree always better???

The cases of Fenway Park and Wrigley field tell us that it's possible to still have a ballpark that may not be modern,but that historical nature is not a negative,but a HUGE plus!!!

As I stated before,the cases of Soldier Field and Commiskey II prove that it's not always a good idea...

Chicago Stadium was a great arena....but it was built in 1929. Would I rather go to a game there than at the United Center? You betcha! But I wouldn't be going there 40 times a year and I don't own the team or the building. Same goes for Comiskey Park...I've been to the old one...it was a nice park, your typical old baseball stadium with 2 levels and loads of support columns.

It isn't always about keeping the past alive and loving the 'ol' stadium'....upkeep grows as the stadium ages. Additional revenues aren't there that are in the new buildings. Buildings are built to serve what the near future is expected to bring...50, 60, 70+ years down the road the stadium doesn't serve the current needs.

I have a feeling if people at US Cellular Field could be transported back to Comiskey Park....it wouldn't take long before they caught themselves saying "Geez...we need a new stadium, this place is a depressing old dump!" There are very few parks that can survive as long as they have....Fenway & Wrigley are about all that is left.

Honour the past....don't cling onto it. Which is why I hope this new stadium isn't a cookie-cutter with no charater of its own. Nothing is worse than that. People miss the places like Chicago Stadium, Comiskey Park, etc. because they were unique. Nobody misses Cleveland's Municipal Stadium or Pittsburgh's Three Rivers Stadium or Atlanta's Fulton County Stadium....because they were boring cookie-cutter stadiums.

Wherever this stadium goes....I hope it is built so when future generations have to close it down...they will do so with the same feelings we have for Ivor Wynne.

ip: "Why do we need a new stadium? Really?"

         There are 150 million reasons why. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->

It helped Bernie Ruoff focus on the uprights. :slight_smile:

Exactly!
Why do I wholeheartedly agree?
If the concrete slabs and steel girders of Ivor Wynne Stadium are even a part of the reason for a new stadium, then we need a new CN Tower which is only 5 years newer than the entire north section of Ivor Wynne Stadium. If you've visited the CN Tower lately, you will notice on the observation deck that the steel reinforcing is visible through the concrete on the edge of the deck as you look out. However, the engineers assure us the the Tower will last another 100 years. The engineers' reports on Ivor Wynne Stadium have already stated it will last another 45 years or more with regular maintenance and could support 75 more private boxes on the South side. (Read the City of Hamilton Engineering Report at the beginning of this post.) The only major recommendation was replacing the concrete slabs on the South side within 10 years for about $10 million. (That was 5 years ago...so would be about $20 million today.)
$20 million to make Ivor Wynne structually sound for the next 45 plus years? Yes, that's what I said.
It's a far cry from the $200 plus million that it will take to build another CFL ready stadium in Hamilton that will pretty much be another BMO Field with it's metal structure that shakes on TV when the fans are excited. By 2015 the costs of building a CFL ready stadium in Hamilton will balloon even more, not to mention the infrasture upgrades and maintenance costs whether it's WH or EM. As much as you might dislike your Hamilton Councillors, they are not that stupid. BMO Field has already had emergency repairs to metal fasterners a year after it was built.

Simple solution! 1) Construct multi-level parking on the Brian Timmis site to satisy Bob's wish for more onsite parking for out of towners....even a Tiger-Cat based restuarant/bar with the Hall of Fame included on site. (Tongue in cheek here.......Cause you know our attendance is in the low 20,000 and that extra 500 attendees from out of town will make a world of difference.) But, not to the taxpayers supporting his proposals for a brand new stadium financed on yours and my backs.
2) Purchase a chunk of Scott Park property to widen the roadway on Cannon St. behind the Stadium to ease congestion.
3) We still get the.... (ugh! Pan-Am soccer at IWS) yet retain the absolute best professional stadium in N.A for watching football live, where no seat is a bad seat and the vastlyyyyy underestimated number of fans (the heart of Hamilton Football) who walk to games can still attend.
Put some of the funds that have been thrown around by our scandalous Provincial government back into Ivor Wynne. Or become the next Skydome, Olympic Stadium, BC Place, BMO Field fiasco.

Great post Particularly about our corrupt provincial "governance?" Save I.W. :thup:

Thank you. Funny, but all my buds feel the same. Interesting why these points havn't come across in the media at all or from the Councilors. Did I say they "aren't that stupid"? Oops.

Thank you very much for saying all that Synth. I would love to meet you and chat more. I put a link to that City point on my website. I read it a few weeks ago. It was the first time I have ever read a complete city report. I found it fascinating how they even desribed how they would replace the south stands concrete.

Save Ivor Wynne isn't dead yet I gurantee you that. I need help if anyone wants to save 80 years of stadium and 141 years of team history. That is too much history for this city to lose all at once.

We need a Ti-Cat and Pan Am backup and the city isn't going to help us on this I can almost gurantee you that. Why can't we contact Bob Young and Ian Troop and pitch why WE think we have a plan that is a win-win for all parties. Not sure I like multi-level parking at Brian Timmins, but I agree it could come down and create more surface parking and perhaps underground parking? But I know I need to be more open about a few things too.

I was at that council meeting from 9am to just after 5 and would have stayed longer but I have a familiy. Wanted to be there for the vote to get a feel of the room. Council and the speakers, all endorsed Ivor Wynne without knowing it because they talked about parking all frickin' day on and off, and people kept talking about how parking isn't an issue at Ivor Wynne today because people know how to park on the surrounding streets, use game day shuttles, park and ride programs, the mutliple buses, King, Main, Parkdale, Cannon, Barton, Kenilworth, etc, that will get you close to the stadium, not to mention the many people like myself who live close enough to walk. That's why I never thought Confederation was a good choice because that one is still about highway visibility and there aren't enough houses over there to compliment the walk-up type crowd and transit ....

I want to meet all your buddies and I want to hear more people talk about this. We are close to losing a lot here and I see both sides of this and I am not sure who to blame or who is worse. Bottom line is Ivor Wynne and the Ti-Cats though. My city comes first and that's where my West Harbour over East Mountain support came in, but my heart was all over Save Ivor Wynne and it's great to suddenly hear there is so much support out there for the old girl.

I have had three more people sign the petition just since I submitted it to council yesterday morning. I know it's not much but we need to spread the word.

Other than a mayoral candiate feeding me report after report to help me with my cause, and a cousin who is spreading posters and the verbal word, this has all been me and Ivor Wynne deserves so much more than the 5 minutes I was able to speak on her behalf yesterday at the council meeting. It deserves so much more respect for the years she has serviced this community even through the years she was an embarrassment becuase she was poorly maintained.

The Red Sox and Boston have done it. Chicago has done it. Why are these cities preserving history and even New York didn't? Did Yankee stadium suffer the defeat of big money and not enough voices to save her because I seen Yankee stadium and Fenway borth once now, and there is no reason why they couldn't have done to YS, what they did to Fenway. Fenway is a nice balance of the now, and then then. Ivor Wynne as you so perfectly pointed out, can be more than we are allowing her to be.

THanks. You made my day with this post. Some days I have felt alone in my plea. Cheers to you and your friends. My contact info is on the Save Ivor Wynne site.

I occasionally take in a game at Ivor W.- it is a fan favorite as the fan is close to the action. I don't believe Hamilton needs another playing field.

The "Save Ivor Wynne Stadium" website was mentioned in this article here: http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnis ... 94506.html

Here is an excerpt from it:

“The best option is the one already standing,? said Larry Pattison, who has a petition on his http://www.saveivorwynnestadium.com website.

He makes some compelling arguments and while few agree they are feasible they are certainly a hell of a lot better than Hamilton no longer being part of the Canadian Football League.


And I don't mean to hijack this thread, but some might like what Angelo Mosca had to say about the mayor in that article.