Ivor Wynne Stadium vs. West Harbor

Hamilton Tiger-Cats
21

Are you referring to the Waterfront Trust?

If so, It’s a charitable organization. Two if its board members are representatives from the city of Hamilton, the chairman is Chad Collins and the other city rep is Bob Bratina.

Not sure when the board is changing but I think Collins is steppping down.

Here is their purpose:

Our Mission Statement:

[i]We want to make it possible for everyone to use and enjoy Hamilton’s Waterfront. Our mandate is to be a leader in providing various developments designed to enhance the waterfront experience and promote easy access to the water’s edge within its beautiful surroundings.

Our Goals:
Create Trails and Linkages
Make Health and Enjoyment a Priority
Build Amenities and More
Protect, Enhance and Regenerate Natural Areas
Educate and Create Awareness
Our Mandate:

“Connecting you to the water’s edge”. We are dedicated to finding new, exciting ways of making it easier for residents and visitors to experience this wonderful part of our city.[/i]

http://www.hamiltonwaterfront.com/hwtboard.php
22

Follow the money...

Why does anyone think Mayor Fred and Chad Collins only wanted to discuss one site for the stadium? Was it in the best interests of the city to only look at one site? Why did council defeat a motion to study the Confed Park site? Why is a 5,000 seat stadium in the West Harbour the approved "B" plan?

23

Kirk its plainly a conflict of interest, much the same as Chad Collins. Both gentlemen, and I use that term insanely loosely are 100% to blame for this mess because of their agendas and taking all sites off the table except WH and in Confeds case lying to council and influencing the vote based on those lies

24

Charitable? Thats another part of the ploy Kirk, that way they don't have to pay taxes.
I already adressed your comments about the health issues. Sugar coating the fact that your still playing in your own garbage with a new wrapper doesn't change the fact that its still a toxic waiste dump.
Total conflict of intersest.
I always new there was something smelly about this WH and its not just the water.
Like I have said before you are part of the problem, you come on here pretending to be neutral and you have known all along how deep this mess at WH really is.

8)
25

How is it a conflict in the baord is to comprised of city elected officials and citizens/

They are tasked to carry out the mandate of the Waterfront Trust which you would think should align with the city's, not conflict with it.

With a mission statement of;

" make it possible for everyone to use and enjoy Hamilton’s Waterfront. Our mandate is to be a leader in providing various developments designed to enhance the waterfront experience and promote easy access to the water’s edge within its beautiful surroundings."

and goals of:

[i]Create Trails and Linkages
Make Health and Enjoyment a Priority
Build Amenities and More
Protect, Enhance and Regenerate Natural Areas
Educate and Create Awareness
Our Mandate:

"Connecting you to the water's edge". We are dedicated to finding new, exciting ways of making it easier for residents and visitors to experience this wonderful part of our city.[/i]

They are doing just that by protecting the existing Confederation Park while trying to enhance WH, keeping in mind the Barton- Tiffany lands are not right on the waterfront ( as any Confederation Park stadium would be.)

What's good for our waterfronts is good for our city.

26

But for the upmteenth time Captain, The Master Plan for CPark takes up the supposed valuable “green space”. How is that protecting “the existing CPark”?

Looking at the (pdf) map of the Plan, it appears 30-40% of the green space between Barangas and Wild Waterworks is taken up with an expanded Adventure Village, a commercial complex (restaurants, shops, an inn/interpretive centre, etc) and “environmental” play zone,water park being expanded, more parking (?), etc.

A recent opinion piece in the Spec talking up the protection of CPark and other green space also conveniently ignores this CPark Master Plan to pave over (at least part of) paradise.

Sorry but you can’t have it both ways.

27

I'll give Chad Collins a pass as a councilor but Eisenburger was there as a private citizen and gets no such pass. IMO Collins is in conflict too but its a lot less clear and involves accusations which would be slanderous or libel if I couldn't back it up in court. Sadly I don't think the Trust and the city's best interests are always the same and THAT is why I say there is a conflict. Chad puts the Trusts interests ahead of the city's when they are in conflict IMO

28

Look no one has ever said that space is not being taken up by ameneties, have they?

Those things are very park friendly, used by everyone quite often at peoples’ convenience, just like a park, and have much more flexibility in being planned and executed.

A stadium is much more complicated, intrusive and disruptive than that.

But aside from any specific reasoning, it is a publicly owned park and as such, elected officials are the ones to determine what is the best use for it. Not the Tiger-Cats. I don’t understand this sense by some that the Tiger-Cats y are entitled to put a stadium on any piece of public property that they want.

If the city council decided to go ahead with a stadium at CP, then fine that’s what they think is in the best interests of the city, but vote after vote they consistently show they do not.

And again, you may disagree with them, but surely you can understand it.

29

Such as…?

30

Rheem6000. Budgetary issues that ultimately will require city funds rather than business income to support itself. The list is actually longer than even I like to admit. As for your response about green space. It was a bold faced lie that a stadium would use up green space that would otherwise be saved. There is no other way to put it

31

Sorry still don’t know what that means unless your advocating we shut down public facilities cuz they cost money to run, such as libraries, and even IWS

Does Gage Park generate enough revenue to break even, or does it cost money to operate?

I’m not entirely sure what you’re getting at.

32

That’s the spin from the pro-WH, RTH crowd.

The TiCats as expected investors and tenants are not entitled to any public land.

But the City had to be realistic and more flexible in that it should not, cannot, force a business to locate where it believes it will lose money.

The TiCats presented a list (10 or whatever sites) that the City basically ignored or summarily dismissed (with no study) in it’s obsession with WH and fixing City problems with stadium and sports related and intended funding.

The team kept looking for a win-win (City gains a valuable legacy facility, the team a viable business) but the City kept looking for a “City-agenda-only-counts” win-lose, recent asinine, anti-TiCat rants and comments in Council from the likes of Pasuta, Pearson and the newbie Councillors being examples of that mindset.

Info I’ve posted on The Spec to try and counter the ridiculous comments there…

Re business practicalities and reality

Before the Red Hill Expwy, there was a successful McDonald’s on Limeridge Rd, immediately south of Limeridge Mall.

After Limeridge Rd was closed to thru traffic, the McDonald’s lasted probably less than a year before having to close it’s doors. A few businesses (a restaurant comes to mind) have tried to make that location work and all have folded and the site now sits empty, it has for years.

As the City, I’m forcing you to set up your business there and we’ll see how long you last. Oh, and I expect you to invest millions of dollars on a loser site you will not own.

How many of you BY/TiCat bashers and “business experts? will take up the challenge? >>>

The TiCats wanted a win-win, the City wasn’t interested so we’re where we’re at today with a potential lose-it-all.

33

Yes that is part of it Jimmy. Your Gage Park analogy is funny as they don’t have an arms length agency doing their bidding. If the Waterfront Trust was a city department it would be different, it isn’t and one of its mandates is simple existence something that does nothing for the city. HECFI is another organization thats fully funded by taxpayers that follows that model and it is also often in conflict with city goals

34

No way, the WH group won't need city funding, they might just sue the city for 5 or 6 million if they don't get their WH money, like they did the feds to fund their operation. I wonder how Chad Collins would explain that one away if it came to be? Botttom line is, we are dealing with a desperate animal with this wh group, their almost out of money and this Hostco/future fund money is their golden pot at the end of the rainbow. Frankly they will pull every string possible to win this battle.
It has been very clear from the beginning their only interest is WH or themselves. Its time to put this group out of their misery and shut them down for good before them come begging for more tax dollars.
Thats right, by sueing the feds. they basically sued each and every one of us. Were do you think the 6+ million came from? Yours and my taxes payed for it.
Charitable status? Man these guys are good.
Sorry, I have seen alot of charity work in my life and I can tell you these guys are the best orginized charity I have ever seen.
What was that old saying from the 60's? You can fool some of the people some of the time, you can even fool some of the people all of the time, you just can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Its time to shut these guys down once and for all before they get another dime from the tax payers!

8)
35

This is a great read and thank you Mark Masters for recognizing Mr. Pattison’s accomplishments.

I am proud of how you represented being a Hamiltonian and Tiger-Cat fan.
You never gave up against the worst of odds and hopefully your vision can be fulfilled.
We truly are not worthy.

36

All things that should be discussed and researched in the months ahead, but for now ours and our cities focus, needs to be on the great opportunity that stands before us.

Jason Farr is getting lambasted on forums today for his speaches at council last night and yes, maybe he did bring more of his radio voice than he should have to the table, but he said it best I thought.

All great questions. All valid points, but we need to embrace this opportunity. Not point fingers and point fingers at the past.

What has this process tought us? I know for one I have learned so many valuable lessons from all of this, and have made many new friends and have had the opportunity to meet some great, passionate people who are very involved in their community (our community), on so many levels.

Perhaps we needed all of this, to truly realize the worth in what we already have. That's the way I look at it anyway.

For now, I leave you with this:

The 1930 British Empire Games built the foundation. The 2015 Pan Am Games could very welll, allow Ivor Wynne Stadium to be re-born. #Toronto2015 may be the catalyst, to leaving behind yet another legacy at 75 Balsam Avenue North.

Thanks to The Spec, for reminding us today and in a timely fasion, the depths of not only our stadiums worth, but it's namesake. [url]http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/473273--what-s-in-a-stadium-name[/url]
I sat down with Bob Wynne last year, and the Wynne family is as many commentors pointed out, a class act.

We live in a great city full of some extremely passionate and caring people. A city chalk full of history. Our Tiger-Cats and Ivor Wynne stadium, are two of my most cherished 'assets'.

I hope that on January 24th, all of City Hall is packed, and that we will all be able to cheer teary-eyed, as council approves Ivor Wynne stadium as our 'preferred' locaiton for the future of football in Hamilton, and the host of soccer for the #Toronto2015 Pan-American Games.

I dream that that evening, we will all be able to raise a glass, and celebrate what we have learned, and what lies ahead.

37

Thank you from the bottom of my heart Grover. Mark Masters is a class act. Not just becuase he wrote about me (lol), but he actually emailed me to tell me how well the story was recieved by his editors and readers.

I don’t know that writers truly realize, what an honor and priveledge it is, when someone writes something like that about another person.

These kinds of stories, and Scott Radley comes to mind with regards to similar stories (Mark Blonski/Lawfield Arena comes immediately to mind), have always been my favorite to read. I have read Mark’s piece a few times now, and all I can say is ‘wow.’

Thanks again to all of those who encouraged me, and even those that challenged me becuase those challenges make us stronger and I truly believe, better at what we do.

Kind words give us courage. Harsh words make us stronger. I always appreciated and had great respect, for the coaches and teachers that told it like it is. They knew when to back down and say ‘hey, good job’, but the great leaders, the ones who inspire, know the perfect balance between ‘stop screwing around’, and ‘hey, nice goal.’

Is it January 24th yet?