Ivor Wynne Stadium - rebuilt or renovate?

I don't know what they voted for. Does anyone?

Here's what I got from Joey Coleman's live coverage of the meeting:

[i]5:36
Ferguson's motion:

  1. Receive report
  2. Rescinds West Harbour as preferred location
  3. City manager to inform Toronto 2015 that IWS is selected as stadium site and $45 million is the cap to city's contribution

5:38
Motion passes

5:38
10-6 vote
[/i]

"Receive report"?

"IWS as selected site"

The report had options A through E (see Table 1 of report) http://www.raisethehammer.org/static/im ... _01_24.pdf

I'm assuming council went with "Option B" of the report: 15,000 seat stadium at IWS plus base CFL needs for $156.5m (not to be confused with Plan B, 6,000 seat scalable stadium at WH)

It’ll be most interesting to see some graphics ie what the new grandstand and the north side renos might look like. Would be they be able to raise capacity beyond 25k if the north sides simply had the bleachers replaced with new ones?

Thanks for the link Kirk.

http://www.raisethehammer.org/static/im ... _01_24.pdf

It appears that a new TC headquarters would add $18 million to the "estimated" total costs, bringing the "estimated" total cost to $174.5 million, beyond the $156.5 million without it.
Hmmmm, I wonder if the Dallas Cowboys have an $18 million dollar headquarters. Is something awry with these "estimated" numbers?
I know we could afford to renovate the South stands and add lots of perks, by including the Brian Timmins and Scott Park sites in those plans. This $154.5 doesn't appear to include anything in that area exept that Brian Timmins will gone through encroachment from an entirely new South stands that might have OMB issues with regard to height and loss of available/affordable field space for the community.

For future reference: It's Timmis not Timmins, don't feel bad though even Rob Rossini called it that at yesterday's meeting (even after he was corrected by the Mayor)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Timmis

Brian Timmis (December 5, 1899 – August 22, 1971) was a star football player in the Canadian Football League for twenty seasons, mainly for the Hamilton Tigers and the Ottawa Rough Riders. Timmis won three Grey Cups as a player. He later coached the Hamilton Flying Wildcats, leading them to the 31st Grey Cup championship. He was inducted into the Canadian Football Hall of Fame in 1963 and into the Canada's Sports Hall of Fame in 1975. Brian Timmis Stadium in Hamilton, Ontario is named after him.

It's been said the the renovated north side will have less seats than it does now. 10,000 seats, plus 15,000 seats that Toronto 2015 will finance for the south side.

Reason is, that right now, the rows are too long and people will not leave their seat to get concessions.

So, the solution is to add aisles by removing seats, making it easier to get beers and hot dogs.

Being a southsider all my life, I look forward to accessible concessions. they are brutal now, and a modern facility will do wonders for concession sales.

(That is, if IWS2 is a go)

From page 16 the city report: http://www.raisethehammer.org/static/im ... _01_24.pdf

If the Tiger-Cats’ additional needs (estimated at $18 million) are incorporated (i.e. primarily office relocation of 1 Jarvis St. and other amenities) [b]then the capital cost of the stadium becomes $174.5 million[/b]. See column “C? below.

If I understand this, The Ti-Cats have pulled the Office space and amenities out but the team transition costs(loss of IWS) of $7Mil are left on.

Scenarios “B?, “C?, and “D? all include stadium/team transition costs of $7 million
because the Tiger-Cats will not be able to play their home games at Ivor Wynne for at
least two full seasons i.e. 2012 and 2013. This $7 million cost has been included in the
total project cost budget and forms part of the Stadium funding shortfall.

It is also imperative to note that $7 million has been included in the total project cost
budget and forms part of the Stadium funding shortfall. In British Columbia, the
Provincial Government paid all transition costs to relocate the BC Lions into a 25,000
seat temporary stadium while BC Place is being renovated.

They are hoping the Prov. will pick this up on a separate budget as in B.C.

Grover, that's about the way I see it too.

Although, I'm not as sure that the Tiger-Cats have pulled their $18m request. Last I heard is that they'd be willing to pull it. Maybe I'm just splittin' hairs here.

The numbers yesterday are just way out of whack.

Why can't we build something like this

http://www.jmusports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=365149&SPID=45221&DB_OEM_ID=14400&KEY=&ATCLID=204770166#PROJECT

With the way the one side circles around the endzone, and the other side a shorter smaller grandstand, that renovated facility actually has a superficial resemblance to IWS (on a bigger, fancier scale). I'd think the TCs would be the envoy of any club not named Edmonton or BC if they had a facility like that as home turf. Although, i'm not sure the one open endzone you could get by leaving out that big building would be wide-enough to build a big enough grandstand for Grey Cups.

You can't compare construction costs between the US and Canada, our labour costs are higher, our costs of material are higher.

So what happened to this option? Well nothing.
We could have enclosed all the steel girders and open space under the South grandstands and made some real asthetic upgrades at a complete fraction of the cost of new, which might have included a new Tiger-Cat HQ onsite (where that trailer sits on the West side in an open space and sells foot longs exclusively) if someone actually thought about dollars and space used wisely instead of subscribing to "Mitchellism" and this need for a Pan Am Games and a new football/track/soccer stadium.
There are a number of NFL cities who are still paying for stadiums they don't even use anymore.... some of which have been torn down, yet they continue to pay for them.
We tried the NFL type stadium thing in Canada with Skydome, BC Place, and the Big O. We have spent billions of dollars (yes that is plural) and we don't even use 2 of those stadiums for football. (The Ar%# never really used anything for football.) But, we still spent over $600 million on Skydome to sell it to Rogers for $27 million.... and, we continue to pay as we chalked it up to our debt in the billions.... yes you and I even continue to pay for the Big O.
The steel girders and structures of the South stands of IWS will last 4 decades or more according to the City's commissioned 2007 Engineers' report. The South Stands would require about $20 million to last just as long. Save the demolishion and the building new costs, of the South stands for the use of the Brian Timmis site for additional parking, warm-up track, new site of Hall of fame, restaurant, etc. by incoporating multi-levels. The engineers report stated the South side can accomodate another 60+ private boxes on South stands. If done, there might have been a certain surplus of "Provincial - Hostco" and municipal dollars left over to be put toward a number of
realistice"'visionary" ideas (oh, did I say realistic and visionary ideas in the same sentence??? My bad!!) to benefit both the community and the Tiger-Cats.
I have sent this information to City Council several times going back at least 2 years. Every single Councillor, including current, along with the City Manager, have received detailed information on what I have pointed out. WHY WAS THIS NEVER INCLUDED AS AN OPTION??? Why were the econimic benefits of the Tiger-Cats on the City of Hamilton never formally answered either after the question was raised in Council last summer???

The only thing I can think of is, a stipulation of funding from Toronto 2015 is no renovated facilities. New construction only.

(If true, how do they get away with a reno of the north side, unless it's financed outside of the Toronto 2015 scope.)

Other modern facilities are needed, more than just seating. Private boxes, dressing rooms, workout facilities, and perhaps most importantly, modern concession facilities.

Not sure if a patch job would be worth it.

I'm still worried that even a new facility at that location may not be a good idea, and a waste of $138m.

$138 million at this location is as much of a waste of $138 million at WH, IMO.

IMHO it is not a "waste of $138m."
IWS is old and needs to be either renovated/refurbished, modernized and brought up to code or demolished.
A 25,000 seat stadium to be built new in Hamilton as we have found out would be considerably more than $138m.
As I have stated before.
For an investment of $59m. the city gets a modernized and up to code 25,000 seat IWS2 valued at $138m.
For an investment of $3Mil. the Caretaker gets a new modernized 25,000 seat IWS2 for his teams to play out of for 20 years with modern locker rooms ,weight rooms, press box, private boxes etc.
With a modernized and up to code IWS2 concerts can once again be scheduled for more booking dates for the city.
JOBS,JOBS,JOBS.
Go train station at Gage.
LRT stop

Just forget the LRT thing - if we can't afford a stadium we certainly can't afford an LRT.
A BILLION to build it and an enormous cost to operate it. we don't want to go down that road

If you can get a return on the investment, then pretty much any expenditure is good, whether it be IWS2, a WH stadium or LRT.

It's not as much about cost as it is about cost benefit.

Any decision must be based on the return on the investment.

I put the LRT stop in my post to show that if there was no stadium in ward 3 then there would be no reason to put a stop there.
Now what must happen is to give a reason for a stop in the West Harbour area.
There is no reason why these areas cannot be transformed into thriving areas of downtown.
I personally do not know how but be assured there is a way.

Not sure if you know, but an LRT stop is planned for Scott Park.

Scott Park - south-roadside station between Balsalm and Lenister Avenues. (This station would serve Ivor Wynne Stadium, if the City decides to renovate it instead of building a new stadium elsewhere.)

[url=http://transit.toronto.on.ca/archives/weblog/2011/01/24-video_and_.shtml]http://transit.toronto.on.ca/archives/w ... and_.shtml[/url]

Someone inspired me to "bump" this. Thanks Mr. Bird or was it Mr. Fine....so many Larry's, not including Di Ianni.... I didn't say infamous.
Hopefully, the Pan Am Committee read it.