It seems like I am not the only one...

[BeerBarons]

I came across this post from a google group. It seems like I am not the only one that thinks Milwaukee would work.
Look at his thoughts of US expansion.

[url=http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.sport.football.canadian/browse_thread/thread/ace010eb55cd035d/a5776e643a513b35?hl=en#a5776e643a513b35]http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec ... 643a513b35[/url]

Regulations or Key Points of Expansion:

1. All proposed franchises would be located in cities of border states to
   Canada, with the exception of Portland, Oregon located on Washington state's
   southern border.
2. CFL-American teams must not have more than ONE current NFL team in the
   proposed state, which excludes Ohio (Cleveland & Cincinnati), Pennsylvania
   (Pittsburg & Philidelphia) and New York (Buffalo, NY Jets & NY Giants).
3. In regards to Michigan and Minnesota, The border city of Windsor, ON
   (320,000) to Detroit, MI would be considered a future Canadian site of a
   possible expansion franchise over any of those state's cities.
4. This would then include the states of (1) Washington (2) Oregon (3)
   Idaho (4) Montana (5) North & South Dakota (6) Wisconsin and (7) Vermont-New
   Hampshire-Maine.
5. All teams must preferably be based in cities of at least 100,000
   population or have a state and/or region market area population of near or
   at least 1 million. The team must be statewide run from the largest, most
   northerly and/or capital city and must be without an esisting NFL team in
   that city.
6. CFL-American teams must have a minimum 25,000 seat stadium guaranteed or
   in place before a team is granted.
7. All CFL rules & regulations must be adhered to, which includes the
   Non-Import Player Quota with the exception that Non-Imports for CFL-American
   teams are defined as players from the franchise City, State or Region. No
   other exceptions or changes will be made to the Canadian game, unless
   authorized by the League in whole!

• • State Capital

• (estimate population 2004)

                                                CFL - AMERICAN DIVISION 
  

1. WASHINGTON (5.8 M) - * Olympia (43,000) - Current State NFL team:
   Seattle Seahawks

Proposed City: SPOKANE (196,000) - Largest city in northeast of state with
an International airport and highways traveling northwards to the province
of B.C. Possible name for State team: Washington State Wildcats

2. OREGON (3.4 M) - * Salem (137,000) - Current State NFL team: NONE

Proposed City: PORTLAND, OR (530,000) - Largest Oregon city situated on the
Oregon-Washington border. The city has an International airport and
highways traveling northwards to the province of B.C. Possible name for
State team: Oregon Trail Panthers

3. IDAHO (1.3 M) - * Boise (186,000) - Current State NFL team: NONE

Proposed City: BOISE (186,000) - This is the largest city in Idaho and the
capital. The city has a Municipal airport and highways traveling northwards
to the provinces of B.C. and Alberta. Possible name for State team: Idaho
Raider-Gridders

4. MONTANA (1 M) - * Helena (26,000) - Current State NFL team: NONE

Proposed City: BILLINGS (100,000) - This is the largest city in Montana.
The city has a Municipal airport and highways traveling northwards to the
provinces of B.C., Alberta and Saskatchewan. Possible name for State team:
Montana Rams

5. NORTH DAKOTA (0.7 M) - * Bismarck (56,000) and SOUTH DAKOTA (0.8 M) - *
   Pierre (8,100)
   • Current State NFL team: NONE

Proposed City: FARGO-MOORHEAD, ND-MN (100,000) - This is the largest city in
North Dakota, which has an International airport and is situated on the
ND-MN border. Highways can reach the provinces of Saskatchewan and Manitoba
to the north. Market area for the team would be statewide in both North and
South Dakota and Western Minnesota. Possible name for Tri-State Regional
team: Dakota Ramblers

6. WISCONSIN (5.3 M) - * Madison (209,000) - Current State NFL team: Green
   Bay Packers

Proposed City: MILWAUKEE (597,000) - This city is the largest in Wisconsin
and located east of the capital Madison and south of Green Bay on the coast
of Lake Michigan. The city is approximately of the same latitute as
Hamilton and Toronto, ON. It also has an International airport and highways
leading northwards to Minnesota, Michigan and onwards to Ontario. Possible
name for State team: Wisconsin Warriors

7. VERMONT (0.6 M) - * Montpellier (8,100), NEW HAMPSHIRE (1.3 M) - *
   Concord (41,000) and MAINE (1.3 M) - * Augusta (19,000) - Nearest NFL
   team: New England Patriots - Boston, MA

Proposed City: MANCHESTER, NH (107,000) - New Hampshire's largest city has a
Municipal airport and is located in the southern part of the state near the
Atlantic ocean. Possible name for the Tri-State Regional team: New England
Americans

[BeerBarons]

I like some of this ideas but I dont agree with some of his proposed cities.
Milwaukee and Portland sound pretty good though.

[RedandWhite]

....I'm sure if you search more you'll find even a couple or a few more people who think you idea would work....this doesn't necessarily mean its a GREAT idea....Ford sold more than a couple of Edsels....

.....plain and simple, US expansion of the CFL is not going to happen anytime in the foreseeable future no matter how hard you lobby for it here....turn your tireless online energy to fight global warming or sumtin....

[redwhite2005]

Never say never! There those in the CFL that want this!

[RedandWhite]

...perseverance is an admirable trait but this Milwaulkee business is getting a little long in the tooth.....besides, who in the CFL is lobbying for this my friend?....

[Steveemac]

Oh, goody, I get to analyse this line by line-and all my Canadian friends will say, "there he goes again!"

@"BeerBarons"

2. CFL-American teams must not have more than ONE current NFL team in the
   proposed state, which excludes Ohio (Cleveland & Cincinnati), Pennsylvania
   (Pittsburg & Philidelphia) and New York (Buffalo, NY Jets & NY Giants). {The Jets and Giants both play in New Jersey, so Rochester is still eligible}
3. In regards to Michigan and Minnesota, The border city of Windsor, ON
   (320,000) to Detroit, MI would be considered a future Canadian site of a
   possible expansion franchise over any of those state's cities. {Why would Windsor be considered over anything in Minnesota? Bit far from Windsor to St. Paul}
4. This would then include the states of (1) Washington (2) Oregon (3)
   Idaho (4) Montana (5) North & South Dakota (6) Wisconsin and (7) Vermont-New
   Hampshire-Maine.
5. All teams must preferably be based in cities of at least 100,000
   population or have a state and/or region market area population of near or
   at least 1 million. The team must be statewide run from the largest, most
   northerly and/or capital city and must be without an esisting NFL team in
   that city. {IMHO, any future US based CFL team(s) would need to be located in metro areas of at least 500,000}
6. CFL-American teams must have a minimum 25,000 seat stadium guaranteed or
   in place before a team is granted.
7. All CFL rules & regulations must be adhered to, which includes the
   Non-Import Player Quota with the exception that Non-Imports for CFL-American
   teams are defined as players from the franchise City, State or Region. No
   other exceptions or changes will be made to the Canadian game, unless
   authorized by the League in whole!

• • State Capital

• (estimate population 2004)

                                                CFL - AMERICAN DIVISION 
  

1. WASHINGTON (5.8 M) - * Olympia (43,000) - Current State NFL team:
   Seattle Seahawks

Proposed City: SPOKANE (196,000) - Largest city in northeast of state with
an International airport and highways traveling northwards to the province
of B.C. Possible name for State team: Washington State Wildcats
{While Spokane is a decent-sized city, the surrounding region is populated mostly by farms and such-and I kind feel that no new team-in any sport-should be allowed to use the moniker "Wildcats" ever again-too freakin' generic.}

2. OREGON (3.4 M) - * Salem (137,000) - Current State NFL team: NONE

Proposed City: PORTLAND, OR (530,000) - Largest Oregon city situated on the
Oregon-Washington border. The city has an International airport and
highways traveling northwards to the province of B.C. Possible name for
State team: Oregon Trail Panthers {Another lame name; good city to choose, for a while-eventually, Portland will get the NFL}

3. IDAHO (1.3 M) - * Boise (186,000) - Current State NFL team: NONE

Proposed City: BOISE (186,000) - This is the largest city in Idaho and the
capital. The city has a Municipal airport and highways traveling northwards
to the provinces of B.C. and Alberta. Possible name for State team: Idaho
Raider-Gridders {If you travel for two hours in any direction from Boise, the nearest city of any size is-still Boise! These highways that lead to BC are two lane winding roads; and they lead to EASTERN BC, where a majority of the province's population doesn't live...and WTF is a "Raider-Gridder?"}

4. MONTANA (1 M) - * Helena (26,000) - Current State NFL team: NONE

Proposed City: BILLINGS (100,000) - This is the largest city in Montana.
The city has a Municipal airport and highways traveling northwards to the
provinces of B.C., Alberta and Saskatchewan. Possible name for State team:
Montana Rams {Possible other name: Montana Bankrupt Laughing-Stock}

5. NORTH DAKOTA (0.7 M) - * Bismarck (56,000) and SOUTH DAKOTA (0.8 M) - *
   Pierre (8,100)
   • Current State NFL team: NONE

Proposed City: FARGO-MOORHEAD, ND-MN (100,000) - This is the largest city in
North Dakota, which has an International airport and is situated on the
ND-MN border. Highways can reach the provinces of Saskatchewan and Manitoba
to the north. Market area for the team would be statewide in both North and
South Dakota and Western Minnesota. Possible name for Tri-State Regional
team: Dakota Ramblers {nobody from SD is going to drive all the way to Fargo for a football game-and Sioux Falls residents would probably NOT show up out of spite, as their city is bigger than Fargo and Moorhead put together.}

6. WISCONSIN (5.3 M) - * Madison (209,000) - Current State NFL team: Green
   Bay Packers

Proposed City: MILWAUKEE (597,000) - This city is the largest in Wisconsin
and located east of the capital Madison and south of Green Bay on the coast
of Lake Michigan. The city is approximately of the same latitute as
Hamilton and Toronto, ON. It also has an International airport and highways
leading northwards to Minnesota, Michigan and onwards to Ontario. Possible
name for State team: Wisconsin Warriors (This guy must be another disgruntled Marquette U alumni, still P.O.'d about the university renaming it's teams "Golden Eagles"}

7. VERMONT (0.6 M) - * Montpellier (8,100), NEW HAMPSHIRE (1.3 M) - *
   Concord (41,000) and MAINE (1.3 M) - * Augusta (19,000) - Nearest NFL
   team: New England Patriots - Boston, MA

Proposed City: MANCHESTER, NH (107,000) - New Hampshire's largest city has a
Municipal airport and is located in the southern part of the state near the
Atlantic ocean. Possible name for the Tri-State Regional team: New England
Americans{f you use the "New England" name in there, you will be considered as copycatting, and will not be taken seriously, and adding "Americans" will just about get you an infringement lawsuit}

Geesh, I'm geting pathetic-New Years resolution: start dating again!

[FootbalYouBet]

@"Steveemac"

Oh, goody, I get to analyse this line by line-and all my Canadian friends will say, "there he goes again!"

@"BeerBarons"

2. CFL-American teams must not have more than ONE current NFL team in the
   proposed state, which excludes Ohio (Cleveland & Cincinnati), Pennsylvania
   (Pittsburg & Philidelphia) and New York (Buffalo, NY Jets & NY Giants). {The Jets and Giants both play in New Jersey, so Rochester is still eligible}
3. In regards to Michigan and Minnesota, The border city of Windsor, ON
   (320,000) to Detroit, MI would be considered a future Canadian site of a
   possible expansion franchise over any of those state's cities. {Why would Windsor be considered over anything in Minnesota? Bit far from Windsor to St. Paul}
4. This would then include the states of (1) Washington (2) Oregon (3)
   Idaho (4) Montana (5) North & South Dakota (6) Wisconsin and (7) Vermont-New
   Hampshire-Maine.
5. All teams must preferably be based in cities of at least 100,000
   population or have a state and/or region market area population of near or
   at least 1 million. The team must be statewide run from the largest, most
   northerly and/or capital city and must be without an esisting NFL team in
   that city. {IMHO, any future US based CFL team(s) would need to be located in metro areas of at least 500,000}
6. CFL-American teams must have a minimum 25,000 seat stadium guaranteed or
   in place before a team is granted.
7. All CFL rules & regulations must be adhered to, which includes the
   Non-Import Player Quota with the exception that Non-Imports for CFL-American
   teams are defined as players from the franchise City, State or Region. No
   other exceptions or changes will be made to the Canadian game, unless
   authorized by the League in whole!

• • State Capital

• (estimate population 2004)

                                                CFL - AMERICAN DIVISION 
  

1. WASHINGTON (5.8 M) - * Olympia (43,000) - Current State NFL team:
   Seattle Seahawks

Proposed City: SPOKANE (196,000) - Largest city in northeast of state with
an International airport and highways traveling northwards to the province
of B.C. Possible name for State team: Washington State Wildcats
{While Spokane is a decent-sized city, the surrounding region is populated mostly by farms and such-and I kind feel that no new team-in any sport-should be allowed to use the moniker "Wildcats" ever again-too freakin' generic.}

2. OREGON (3.4 M) - * Salem (137,000) - Current State NFL team: NONE

Proposed City: PORTLAND, OR (530,000) - Largest Oregon city situated on the
Oregon-Washington border. The city has an International airport and
highways traveling northwards to the province of B.C. Possible name for
State team: Oregon Trail Panthers {Another lame name; good city to choose, for a while-eventually, Portland will get the NFL}

3. IDAHO (1.3 M) - * Boise (186,000) - Current State NFL team: NONE

Proposed City: BOISE (186,000) - This is the largest city in Idaho and the
capital. The city has a Municipal airport and highways traveling northwards
to the provinces of B.C. and Alberta. Possible name for State team: Idaho
Raider-Gridders {If you travel for two hours in any direction from Boise, the nearest city of any size is-still Boise! These highways that lead to BC are two lane winding roads; and they lead to EASTERN BC, where a majority of the province's population doesn't live...and WTF is a "Raider-Gridder?"}

4. MONTANA (1 M) - * Helena (26,000) - Current State NFL team: NONE

Proposed City: BILLINGS (100,000) - This is the largest city in Montana.
The city has a Municipal airport and highways traveling northwards to the
provinces of B.C., Alberta and Saskatchewan. Possible name for State team:
Montana Rams {Possible other name: Montana Bankrupt Laughing-Stock}

5. NORTH DAKOTA (0.7 M) - * Bismarck (56,000) and SOUTH DAKOTA (0.8 M) - *
   Pierre (8,100)
   • Current State NFL team: NONE

Proposed City: FARGO-MOORHEAD, ND-MN (100,000) - This is the largest city in
North Dakota, which has an International airport and is situated on the
ND-MN border. Highways can reach the provinces of Saskatchewan and Manitoba
to the north. Market area for the team would be statewide in both North and
South Dakota and Western Minnesota. Possible name for Tri-State Regional
team: Dakota Ramblers {nobody from SD is going to drive all the way to Fargo for a football game-and Sioux Falls residents would probably NOT show up out of spite, as their city is bigger than Fargo and Moorhead put together.}

6. WISCONSIN (5.3 M) - * Madison (209,000) - Current State NFL team: Green
   Bay Packers

Proposed City: MILWAUKEE (597,000) - This city is the largest in Wisconsin
and located east of the capital Madison and south of Green Bay on the coast
of Lake Michigan. The city is approximately of the same latitute as
Hamilton and Toronto, ON. It also has an International airport and highways
leading northwards to Minnesota, Michigan and onwards to Ontario. Possible
name for State team: Wisconsin Warriors (This guy must be another disgruntled Marquette U alumni, still P.O.'d about the university renaming it's teams "Golden Eagles"}

7. VERMONT (0.6 M) - * Montpellier (8,100), NEW HAMPSHIRE (1.3 M) - *
   Concord (41,000) and MAINE (1.3 M) - * Augusta (19,000) - Nearest NFL
   team: New England Patriots - Boston, MA

Proposed City: MANCHESTER, NH (107,000) - New Hampshire's largest city has a
Municipal airport and is located in the southern part of the state near the
Atlantic ocean. Possible name for the Tri-State Regional team: New England
Americans{f you use the "New England" name in there, you will be considered as copycatting, and will not be taken seriously, and adding "Americans" will just about get you an infringement lawsuit}

Geesh, I'm geting pathetic-New Years resolution: start dating again!

so...where is the line by line analysis???

[UglyandHasty]

I think he decided to start dating again instead of doing it :d

[Bamboo]

Good Call, Unfortunately I'm Not As Eager.

The Thing That Really Bugs Me Is That Of All The Cities The Qualify Quebec City Is Larger Then All Of Them, And Halifax Would Rank 4th On That List. Granted Metro Populations Aren't Included But A Lot Of ThoseCities Are Pretty Pathetic. Helena? The Entire City Would Have To Go To Watch The Games In Order To Draw A Full Stadium. Bismark? If They Ever Hosted A Grey Cup Everyone Attending The Game Would Have To Stay In A Residents House.

[BeerBarons]

Bamboo, you did not read it right.
For example, Bismark was not a city chosen to put a team. Fargo/Moorehead was. Bismark is the capital city of the state Fargo is in.
I do agree however, Milwaukee and Portland are the only 2 of the list that I would pick as a successful place to put a team.

[Earl]

Milwaukee and Portland better be the only ones on the list. Heck, even now Toronto (speaking generally here folks) thinks that any city that doesn't have an major team ie. NBA, MLB, NHL, NFL is some sort of backwater in the woods type of town. At least these cities have NBA teams. We always have to keep Toronto happy you know.

[Bamboo]

Yep, Your Right, I Didn't Really Read The Post Properly. But The Fact Of The Matter Is That Even Fargo And Bilings Couldn't Provide Enough Hotel And B&Bs To Support The Thousands That Travel To The Grey Cup.

While I Don't Support US Expansion One City That I Would Rather See Get A CFL Team Is Rochester Which Was Unfairly Left Of The List. It Shouldn't Been Included Because The Only nFL Team In The State Is The Bills, Both The Jets And Giants Are Located In New Jersey.

[Steveemac]

The Line by Line is in the {} parenthesees (jm, did I spell that right? Seriously, did I?). I couldn't get it to do bold or italics inside a quote...Please go back and read again, I made a pretty decent quip about the Montana team...

[BeerBarons]

I did a good write up on Rochester a couple weeks back.
They have a multi use stadium that said yes to the CFL.

[ro1313]

They said yes to the CFL?
Really?
I'll rent my back yard to the CFL if they want! Stadiums are there to be rented.
Is there an owner who said "I want to spend 4 or 5 million on a team"?

[PrairieRouge]

Steveemac, you were close.....parenthesis (singular) and parentheses (plural).....if you were joking, it was cute....if you weren't, then there's your lesson.....

[BeerBarons]

Listen RO, Many stadiums say No to the CFL because of the size of the feild. This stadium understood how the CFL works and would be willing to lease it out to them.
My point is that not many stadiums in the US are CFL ready. This one was.
Now I am interested in renting out your backyard when I come to Montreal. I dont have enough money for a hotel , but if you let me pop a tent in your back yard for a week, I would like to spent a week in Montreal in August if thats ok with you.
How much do you want?
I will even bring my own chemical toilet. LOL

[Invader]

I did a little research myself a while back. Two cities that jumped out for me were: Grand Rapids, Michigan and Rochester, NY, both of which have a metropolitan population of over 1 million. I'm not sure about the stadium availibility or competition in those cites, but by population alone they would be some of the biggest cities in the CFL, and have close proximity to Canada.

[Onknight]

@"Invader"

I did a little research myself a while back. Two cities that jumped out for me were: Grand Rapids, Michigan and Rochester, NY, both of which have a metropolitan population of over 1 million. I'm not sure about the stadium availibility or competition in those cites, but by population alone they would be some of the biggest cities in the CFL, and have close proximity to Canada.

I wish People would forget US Expansion..
This Will not ever happen Again..
Been Try and it Failed..

do you want pisses off big Brother NFL?
I don't also Teams from states would have unfair advantage
No Canadian on rosters..

Keep the CFL Canadian.. NO US Expansion EVER!!!
.

[long_time_fan]

The major reason for the failure of the CFL in the US is the inability to build a brand. The NHL is failing for the same reason. However, the CFL did have a chance to succeed there. Back when the CFL was in Shreveport, there were more kids who wanted to play football than spots on youth football teams in Louisiana. If the league could invest in Canadian rules football in the US, build up the CFL brand among the youth, then the game could succeed. Sadly, that strategy is too far sighted and probably too expensive to be practical. I was lucky enough to see games in Shreveport, Birmingham, Memphis, and Baltimore, and aside from Baltimore, it was sad. I think the total attaendence at the Liberty bowl when we were there was 300 (not sure what percentage was for those who paid). I would hate to see that for the CFL once again.
LTF