Is it possible to build a new stadium WITHOUT tax dollars?

I am hearing the number $150M as the amount needed to get a new stadium built.

While I am not convinced that this would be enough to get new facilities, let's use this number for the sake of argument.

If you divide $150M by 30 000 ticat fans, you would have $5000, or the price of an expensive seat licence.

Would 30 000 ticat fans pay an average of $5000 for a seat licence?

It sounds like a lot of money but it's not out of the question.

What's required is $150M of disposable income among 30 000 ticat fans.

That does sound a bit like a pipe dream, but it's not impossible.

I appreciate any feedback on this idea, positive or negative.

Also, if you have any genius ideas of how to get a stadium built without tax dollars, please share.

Pipe dream.

If private funding was a viable solution for building stadia, then we would see it elsewhere in Canada.

Let's see, I pay 400 bucks now for my seats and I am starting to think that they are on the high side. 5000 is completely out of the question. What woudl that get you? A share in the revenue?

I may be completely stupid but let's say you have 200,000 households that pay taxes in the Hammer. According to the report in the Spec, we will need to contribute 94 mil to upgrade the stadium. Let's round that to 100 mil.

Why not raise property tax 50 bucks across the board for 1 year and you have your stadium paid for? When you pay 2000 - 5000 bucks a year for property tax, what's another 50 bucks?

Can easily be done in my opinion the names are Bob Young, Ron Foxcroft and Jim Basilee particularly if you make it very private i.e. Dofasco involved very limited union work and you make it 250 million with renovations to Copps for Basillee. Whoever wants to pay the biggest piece of the pie put in the most money.

Problem solved two facilities to use. Yeah I know call me a dreamer but there is certainly no lack of money in my scenario.

My two cents, peace,


An idea that seems too far out can emerge
gradually into a very practical solution

if it is tweaked enough by several people.

Try that with Tiger_Dirt's suggestion

or RevClark's

or try that with my suggestion

Remember: Brainstorming like this only keeps going, generating ideas,
if nobody is putdown for their suggestions unrealistic or not.

Before the city was going to be on the hook for between 33 and 44%
of the $150 million dollars for the Pan Am Games stadium complex.

Now with the recent announcment, that has been increased to $94 million,

Why not speculate on various ways we could raise
that additional $38-44 million dollars by donations?

How about this.

  1. What about asking people in Hamilton
    to donate 10 bucks...100 bucks?

    10 bucks would take 3,800,000-4,400,000 individual donors.

    100 bucks would take 380,000-440,000 individual donors.

    The Greater Hamilton area is 500,000

Let's keep them coming.

  1. ...your turn.


What about a lottery?

I am not sure if it is legal.

Revision: Whoever wants the biggest piece of the pie pays the most into it. Example: Bob puts in 51% of the money then obviously he owns 51 % of the new stadium and or the rights to Copps etc. etc.. Or whatever is divided up a la the M.L.S.E. setup without the Teacher's union.

I believe no stadiums should be built with tax money. I hope the brainstorming comes and the cities tax portion can be spent on roads, schools, education, libraries, healthcare, policing, watermains, sewers, affordable housing, public transit, ... etc. Forget the old days of taxpayers paying to build these big stadiums for rich team owners and holders of large one off events where they walk away with millions while sucking in the public to work at the event for free. They all want a handout, me too!!!!!! If its economically viabe and will pay for itself and be a boon to the area and all the other old reasons they always dredge up then .......why dont they build them themselves with thier own money? Pan am games and olympics always come in way over budget and vancouver is gonna be bankrupt after they hold the olympics. Nobody is stopping any private person from buying land and building one of these econamically viable and pay for itself complexes. No sports teams ever release reliable numbers if any and they all cry poor but expect a city and province and country to pay for a stadium that is usually half empty 8 nights a year and pretty much closed the rest? Go to a bank and get the money like everyone else does if its a cant miss proposition or dont buy a business you cant afford to house without gov handouts. Ivor wynne really made that area viable and businesses have just boomed over the years being near it havent they? the hotels, restraunts and shops all along pretty ivor wynne way are so lovely. Copps colliseum has just transformed that part of the city hasnt it? Not on my dime this time thanks, so I really am glad to see this thread about creative ways to raise the money and build it for and by the people who want it and will use it. They can spin it however they want but the money isnt there.

How about this:

the stadium is paid for by ticat fans,

Bob Young and the Ticats get the gate,

the concession goes to those who paid for the stadium.

So, when you pay for your 8 dollar beer, you comfort yourself in the knowledge that you will get a dividend.

Or, forget the dividend, and charge the shareholders nothing but cost on beer and concession.

Imagine a 1 dollar beer.

BMO Field

Location 170 Princes Blvd Toronto, Ontario M6K3C3
Broke ground 2006
Opened April 28, 2007
Owner City of Toronto
Operator MLSE Ltd.
Surface FieldTurf
Construction cost C$62.5 million
Architect Brisbin Brooks Beynon Architects
Capacity 20,844 (Soccer)
Toronto FC, Canada men's national soccer team

Management, ownership and funding

Toronto FC is owned by Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd. (MLSE), owners of the National Hockey League's Toronto Maple Leafs and the National Basketball Association's Toronto Raptors. In addition, MLSE contributed towards the cost of the building of the stadium. With the total costs in the realm of $62 million ($72 million including land), contributions came from multiple sources. MLSE contributed $8 million towards the construction of the stadium and $10 million towards securing the naming rights of the stadium. The Canadian Federal Government contributed $27 million, with Ontario's government adding an additional $8 million. Toronto paid $9.8 million, and has the ownership of the stadium. (All figures are in Canadian dollars.)

In 2007 it cost 72.5 million to build BMO field, for 100 million you can build a pretty good stadium!!



All great ideas, combo of some increased taxes and a lottery sounds fine with me and a surcharge on beer, whatever.

BMO field is a perfect example of everything wrong in these deals. The city owns it, the city pays the taxes, all levels of gov(taxpayers) paid to build it, and mlse as poor as they are do nothing but take home any profits. Socialize the cost and privatize the profits, really sad in these times. 27 million(probably twice that at least in the end) in federal money given to MLSE to build a home for their soccer team? thats about as wrong as it gets when hospitals are closing and laying people off.

Wow............ Tiger_Dirt you think $400.00 is too much for seasons tickets. Let's see here 10 games at $40.00 per game. Purchase 10 Maple Leaf game tickets and re-think your post.

Dead on beetle! And what is really bizarre with the BMO thing in T.O. is that you have a company who operates the stadium but actually doesn’t own it telling the city what they can and can’t do with their stadium. Seriously, that’s the way I see it. Holy shiite, that model should not be repeated IMHO, it’s just plain crazy and the city looks like a bunch of baffoons and don’t know what the heck to do.

The very rich in the United States do a great deal of their fixed income investing
in tax-free municipal bonds because these bonds give them great net return.

Picking any interest rate for an example

A 7 % municipal bond gives a better return
on investment than a 10 % corporate bond

if the purchaser was in a 40 % tax bracket, he would
only have a net gain of 6 % on the corporate bond

If these became legal in Ontario, we could put on a huge marketing campaign
tied in to the need for a new stadium, and I bet they would sell like hotcakes.

I honestly don't think that they are expensive. I only have to pay for 1 ticket, so me as a single person it's not too bad.

I don't like the Leafs thank you very much. I prefer the Sabres and I can get Sabre seats for less than $40. Please rethink your post.

I hate when people compare the CFL to the Leafs. Everything compared to the Leafs is expensive. I have been to about 4 Leaf games over the past 2 years and I haven't paid 1 cent as they were given to me. The tickets are mostly bought by coporations who usually end up writing them off on in taxes somehow.

The prices are getting more and more expensive every year.

In 2007 I moved to Section 7 from Section 9. The tickets were 385. When renewal came last year, they went up to 500 bucks early bird. I moved to Section 8 and paid 380 with the playoff guarantee.

The Cats say that ticket pricing didn't go up this year, but in reality it did.

The seats in 2008 were 340 + 10% for the playoff guarnatee. It worked out to 380 or so.

If the seat prices didn't go up, then the price of the seat should have been 340 not 380 that they are charging for those who don't take advantage of the 10% off that ended this past Friday.

When you look at the rest of the CFL, the ticket prices are climbing and getting inline with MLB, NBA and NFL.

If the price of my seats stays around 400 bucks, I will be okay with it.

The problem I have is that if you want to take your family to all the games, it gets expensive for 1 person to pay for it all.

Ticket prices are going to go up just like everything. I just want to make sure that I am getting my value for it.

What private citizen is dumb enough to build a stadium that gets used for 10 paid gates a year?

Why would Bob Young, Foxcroft or Basillie get involved with this? They each sink in 40 million and what is their ROI?

In order for private investors to invest, you have to make them money and lots of it. You need to pick a spot, much like in Buffalo, where you have to park on their property for 25 bucks! You need multiple revenue streams around the stadium like a beer garden or food stands or something.

I would love to see the Cats being able to have everyone tailgate. That would be awesome!

Besides the Cats, who else are you going to get to come here to make money on the stadium? You would need to have 2-3 BIG concerts a year (AC/DC, big pop acts, etc) plus world class track events, maybe Monster Trucks.

The point is, no private investor is going to shell out his money just because we need a new stadium. These people are in business to make money.

What I say, is build the 10-15,000 seat stadium with the money that they can give to us. After it has been built, it will never be used again.

Then, we get $20 mil and refurbish Ivor Wynne.

I just thought of something hilarious. We are all talking about a new stadium like we are going to get it. If I am not mistaken, no one has even been chosen yet to host the games!

I"m curious if people think Bob will try to unload the Cats once it's determined once and for all that no new stadium will be coming or maybe not even major upgrades to IWS?

I still like my tax-free municipal bond idea.

I have found out that they are legal and we have them across Canada

but they are mostly bought by institutions and pension funds

Why are they popular with high income people
in the United States and not in Canada?

U.S. municipal bonds are immune to certain income taxes,

Canadian municipal bonds interest is taxed as straight income.

Most retail investors in Canada [the public ] know little about these government issues
even though they are among the best yielding and most secure issues on the market.

None have defaulted since the 1930s.

If these became tax free in Ontario they could be sold
to raise funds to upgrade our declining infrastructure,

the kind of projects that would stimulate the economy
which is just what we need in this economic downturn

Thats how cities, counties and states raise money
in the United States for their infrastructure projects,

or, as I said before, we could put on a huge marketing campaign
tied to our Pan Am Games bid and our need for a new stadium,

and I bet they would sell like hotcakes.

Why not approach Jim Basilee and end up with BlackBerry Stadium that costs a minimum to the city, the team and the tax payers in the area? I don't understand why the CFL hasn't publically approached Basilee with the phrasing that the NHL won't let you play with them so why not come play with us? His non-refundable deposit on the Penguins would've kept the Renegades floating for a few years!

Balsillie loves hockey. He is a hockey nut.

I have not hard any indication that he likes football.

He is still working on getting an NHL team, and I believe he will get one.