Looking at a lot of Mock draft boards Lavertu is going 1st to Ottawa and Winnipeg takes Goossen second to fit a need they have on the Oline.
The question for me is should they take by need or should they look at other positions where there is likley to be a better player.
They also have a need for Canadian Dlineman and Evan Gill seems to be a forgotten guy. Remember he was one of the two CIS players invited to the East-West Shrine game and unlike Goosen could likely step in right away and play at DT.
The Bombers recently brought both Lavertu and Goosen to Winnipeg for private workouts. This was not only to give O'Shea and Walters a better chance to interview them but also to give Bob Wylie a chance to evaluate them. (Wylie wasn't hired as our O-line coach until after the E-camp.)
Lavertu is the obvious first choice. But if he's unavailable, I expect the Bombers will pick Goosen unless Goosen totally failed to impress the Bomber staff last week. In that case, who knows?
Is he “worth” the 2nd overall pick? Well, probably not. But Lavertu is not worth the first overall pick. By talent alone Duvernay-Tardiff is worth the first overall pick so you could as the same question of Lavertu. But he won’t be the first overall pick, he may not even be picked in the first or even the second rounds. There may be some draft eligible QBs that talentwise are better than some of the positional players but they won’t get picked because of the position they play unless they’re picked at a different position.
If you go by rankings, Goosen is not in the top 5, heck he’s barely even in the top 10 in the last rankings. But some of the better rated talent will likely not be in a CFL camp this year or for the foreseeable future so they have little worth, at least immediately, to the Bombers. More talented guys at other positions may play what, 5 or 10 snaps a game this season? So does that little edge in talent make the bombers better than Goosen who would be expected to start at Centre immediately and take 100% of the offensive snaps? That makes his value higher and therefore worthy.
If he isn’t picked #2 there are other teams that will pick him ahead of his #9 ranking, like Edmonton at #3 who needs Oline help and did little to beef it up in the offseason. Montreal at #4 could be another team that could like Goosen early having lost Flory, Ola, Barette. And BC had OL issues last year and this offseason lost Angus Reid to retirement, who I believe was their centre, plus Archibald retired, Myddleton left in FA, and they lost another one Albright in the expansion draft. So they would love to add one of the top Oline guys like Goosen to their stockpile I would think with their 5th overall pick.
I agree with what you are saying but my though is that how far of a difference is there between the top 3 Tardiff, Faoucault, and Lavertu and Goosen at 4.
Agree that both Tardiff and Foucault will not be drafted high do to their NFL interest but I would put Lavertu into a category with Foucault with the difference of positon on the Oline that gets Foucalt into the NFL mix and Lavertu still as talented but suited to play in the CFL.
I would just hate to see the Bombers have another Pencer, provided he does not step up this season, on their hand.
I'm not sure it would make sense to compare Pencer to Goosen further than the fact they both play on the Oline. Goosen has been starting for a couple of seasons with SFU and by all accounts is healthy. While he's played multiple positions on the line he's looked at as being more of an interior lineman and it's easier for a younger NI to get their feet wet there. And Pencer left Washington state in 2010 due to academic issues IIRC and only played a couple of games in junior in BC the year after so he hadn't played much football in the 2 years prior to getting drafted in 2012. He was projected to have quite the upside but he was probably further behind developmentally than other upper end prospects in his draft class and required more patience. His first year was a wash finally having surgery to fix a bum shoulder that had plagued him since his NCAA days.
The young OL drafted over the last few years have been stunted developmentally as a group which may be a function of the coaching we've had in that time. I think it would be a bit harsh at this point to judge Pencer as a bust. We'll see if he has any ability after some time with coach Bob Wylie this year.
Well in Walters I trust. So far in the short time he has been GM interim or FT IMHO the talent has been drastically upgraded and trades, new import signings during and after 2013, and FA signings in the offseason I can see about 10 players at least that will make a positive impact and upgrade on the field.
In 2013 I do not think you can name 5.
Ian Wild and...
At least one Mock Draft had Ottawa using their number 1 pick on Quinn Smith. Which would have been great because it would have left Lavertu for us. But now:
A drug test administered at the 2014 CFL Combine in Toronto has confirmed that Concordia University's Quinn Smith has tested positive for a banned substance.
Smith, who performed as both an offensive and defensive lineman at the Combine, made the announcement through a Concordia statement.
"It is with deep regret that I inform you I have been notified of an Adverse Analytical Finding by the Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport (CCES) from an out of competition doping control test on March 21 in Toronto," said Smith in a statement.
"I accept full responsibility for the result of Stanozolol metabolite in my test. I can assure you it was not my intention to use a banned substance or to try to beat the system. I did not properly research the contents of supplements I obtained online and I will accept the consequences of my actions. Since it was inadvertent on my part, I have asked to have my B sample tested and am waiting for the results. I have the deepest respect for the CFL, the CIS and Concordia University and am thankful for the opportunities they offer young people like myself. I have brought undue negative attention to these organizations and for this I am truly sorry. I would like to thank my family and friends for their unwavering support through this difficult time," he added.
....Ouch on Quinn...He was just relegated to 'chancy' on my priority list..What a stupid thing to do...Banned substances are easy to take but sure as heck hard to talk around...He has definitely put a huge asterisk next to his name by all of the gms...Ottawa will most likely take Lavertu leaving us with a dilemma at second....Could we trade down for a lower pick in round one and pick up a second rounder or is the draft too thin....It's quite a quandary for Walters and company in a year we have to make a positive move for Canadian talent.. :roll: :roll:
I agree. Certainly it was a thin chance that Ottawa was not going to take Lavertu has now gone from thin to almost no chance they do. Combine that with who they selected in the expansion draft and if they can sign last years first round draft pick their Oline is pretty well set for the now and development stage. They will be pretty much likley to get a good Safety with their 2nd pick to go with Fraser.
I know an Olineman is of need but this may not be the time to take one for Winnipeg. Right now they are in solid shape with 3 Canadian Olineman and two receivers on offense. gotten very strong at safety and could benefit by taking Evan Gill to help place a second ratio spot on defense
A logical reaction, but if he drops too far in 2-3 years he could be the "steal" of the draft.
Teams will be doubling up their homework on him "off-field".
He may be more forthright in answering question from teams than the media.
Yes I saw that. That is a big difference to where he is slotted on the Souting Bureau rankings, where he is considered a stretch 4th rated Dlineman.
Ford is proven to be among the best so maybe Goosen is indeed very much worth the 2nd pick as Ford has him strongly on level ground with Lavertu and Foucault. Leaving the next lineman to be a distant 5th.
That distant 5th guy is a relative unspoken about guy in Player who is coming out of a small NCAA DI FCS school Northwestern St. who could be a sleeper in the draft
.....Quite a switch around by Forde as to Goosens rating compared to the scouting bureau...Seeing as our new o line coach has worked out Goosen and Lavertu, I think I'd be more inclined to go with Wylies assessment on which player we'll choose.. Maybe Forde and Wylie have come to the same conclusion about Goosens potential..Don't know...We will find out shortly..
Always have to be a bit cautious on the Scouting Bureau rankings. Those are based on ratings provided by CFL scouts, GMs, and so are susceptible to some level of gamesmanship. Some teams may rank some players lower intentionally hoping that's enough to get other teams to skip over their guy so they can get him. Forde is theoretically unbiased, but I'm not sure if he gets all the information, like face time to talk to all the prospects.
The way I look at it Goosen dropped a little bit overall because a couple of other guys tested beyond expectations, one of those being steroid enhanced. And comparing Goosen vs Lavertu in the combine results, Goosen was a little slower in the 3 cone and shuttle drills but otherwise their results weren't too dissimilar. So while his feel may be a bit slower, I would expect that would be one of the technical issues a good OL coach like Bob Wylie could help improve in a young Olineman. Like Forde says, there's not a lot of depth in quality at OL in this year's draft, so if you need one and you need him in camp this year you have to take them right away. As for his mental state compared to Lavertu - what does that mean? Goosen was a team captain and played all across the Oline. So is that just code for he played NCAA US style football at Simon Fraser so he may not be ready to deal with DL 1 yrd off the ball? I think that's a coachable issue. Is it something more than that?
I wouldn't mind seeing the Bombers nab the Wpg born Tchissakid Player later on but given the lack of OL talent, he might be one guy that surprises by being drafted earlier than projected, maybe sneaking into late 2nd round.
I have not hear Player's name at all until now. A 3 year starter at a DI FCS school not to bad and puts on or above the level of play the Goosen and Lavertu had gone against.
Hamilton just released Cody Husband. not an All star by any stretch but is has time to be developed with a good Oline coach. 6'7" 300lbs. Can't teach that size and Hamilton had 9 Canadian Olineman on the roster so someone had to go and Husband was a pre Austin player
....Lavertu orrrrr Goosen the most likely pick for us at two....BUT rumours are starting to fly about possible trades...I can't see us getting involved UNLESS it's to move up to Ottawas spot and that would guarantee us Lavertu, in which case it will cost us something extra.. :roll: Going to get interesting later on today
I believe that BC was interested in moving up so the possible trade could be with BC for someone that we might know can start immediately so that they can pick the guy they want. I also believe the talk was about trading a draft pick that would put us into the 2nd round instead of the first.
BC is reportedly looking to get one of the top OL, so they would probably take local boy Goosen as well with the #2 pick assuming Ottawa goes with Lavertu. Maybe the bombers get a good package, like BCs #1, 5th overall, one of their 2 2nd round picks. We're not likely to get a OL from them. Considering comments made at the Bomber fan forum that there would be a recognizable name LB joining the team in the next few days, maybe the deal includes one of their LBs?
The package might be attractive if it includes the 2 picks and a LB, and IMO it would have to include BCs first rd pick as there's no way I think the Bombers trade out of the first round entirely. Even then, to make this trade would seem counterproductive to what they've been saying about the draft all offseason, which is they want to get better at OL. While getting two players instead of one in a shallow draft year may seem like a good deal, they won't get one of the better ones at their biggest position of need unless they take a gamble on Foucault. Maybe the $ savings in dumping Cauchy was to give Elimimian that extension. Bighill, I think, would probably be an easier fit in an Etch D and I think he has a year longer on his contract than Elimimian, but I don't see BC giving him up. And regardless, either of the two LBs would only be a short term benefit, unless they signed an extension and assuming they would fit in and be productive in an Etch D. Goosen could be a guy that plays on the Oline as a starter for the next 5-10 years. Moving down in the draft may give us 2 guys, but they may not amount to much more than rotational players. Maybe Goosen really underwhelmed at the private workout with Wylie?