Is Durant now "Elite"?

People do not realize how hard it is to win a championship even in an 8 team league. I would not compare Durant to Dan Marino but Marino Super Bowl victory or not one of the elite of all time at the QB position.
Durant legacy is not finished and he may never be seen as one of the greatest QB ever in the CFL history but for this era he has the chance to be considered an elite of the QBs at this time period.

so barry sanders was not elite then :roll:

Have you ever heard the expression about how hard it is to soar like an Eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys? I might be the best QB on the planet, but if my receivers drop my passes, my RB fumbles and my defense blows, there's only so many championships I'm going to win.

There's some truth to what you say; all things being equal, an elite QB might win a championship where a "regular" QB would not. But they're not equal. That's why you end up in situations where, by your definition, Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler could be arguably considered elite and Dan Marino and Jim Kelly were not. It's ludicrous to reduce that status to one criteria that is affected by some many other factors.

Bottom line, Marino couldn't get the job done and win a championship - - and that's why you play the game. Personal stats are nice to boast about, but without a ring they're nothing more than hollow numbers. Stick around long enough and you'll eventually accumulate some big numbers just by default.

Marcel Dionne...Dale Hawerchuck...Mike Gartner...three guys who put up big stats over long careers just like Marino and Ringless Milt. But if the objective is to win a championship, would you take any of them and their empty numbers over Doug Gilmour? Not a chance. Gilmour's a proven winner who can carry a team and make everyone around him better.

But Timmy Smith was.

Except that unless you're quite good, you're not going to stick around in an environment where you crack 30 years of age and it's assumed you're going to start declining. You won't have an opportunity to build up those numbers. That's why a guy like Jim Kelly (whom I've always detested, as an aside) stuck around to play well into his 30's.

As I mentioned, there's three questions to be answered when determining if a player is "elite".

Did he win a ring? If the answer's no, then end of discussion. You can't be elite without a ring. You can be a flashy can be a stat machine...but without a championship you're not in the discussion of being an elite player.

If the answer's yes, he won a ring as in the case of Dilfer and Hostetler then move on to the second question - - did he make everyone around him better? In their case, no they didn't make anyone better they just drive the bus and relied on riding the coat tails of other elite players on the team like Ray Lewis and LT. So that ends the discussion for Dilfer and Hostetler being considered "elite".

Finally, the last question is did they put up big numbers? Peyton Manning...Tom Brady...Doug Flutie...Ricky Ray. All won rings, all made their teammates better all put up big numbers and all are elite.

Did he win a ring?

Flashy RB with a ton of exciting plays and highlights - - but so was Bo Jackson. He'll, Barry couldn't even get his team to a championship game never mind actually win one.

The objective to win chanpionships I agree but many great players dont win championships becasue great teams win championships. two different things

barry and bo were both elite and you got rocks in you head if you think otherwise.

ever watch nfl top 10. both of them make a number of lists and barry has been number 1 on at least 2 that I watched.

Bottom line, Boyo - - did either one of them win a ring?

Elite players will carry their team to a championship. Say what you want about Eli Manning, but he took TWO mediocre Giants teams to the Super Bowl and WON both times as an underdog.

There's only one thing that matters in sports, and that's championships. What else do you think is more important than a ring? Nothing. If you just want to ramble on about individual achievements, like Ringless Milt Stegall, you're playi g the game for the wrong reason. And that's why you'll never be a winner.

Whether you win a championship or not is a terrible way to determine if a player is elite. 1 player cannot overcome deficiencies if the other 41 guys on the roster are bad, your coach sucks, and your management is awful. You put the greatest football player in the world on your team, and unless he’s the MOP and Defensive player of the year, calls the plays, and is the GM, you aint winning squat.

Dan Marino is one of the best quarterbacks to ever play in the NFL, he is elite, it’s not even a discussion. If you don’t think Dan Marino is elite, go find another thread to post garbage in :lol:

So does that mean Chris Jones is an elite coach? The guy's got a couple Grey Cup rings himself, he must be amazing, right? :wink:

He has been a starter for 5 years and only in his 7th pro season this year and has been to 3 GC losing two in his first two years as a starter and wining in his 3rd try in his 5th year as a starter. A great season following his GC victory will place him in the category for sure.
Better decisions on when to run. It seems that he over compinsated by not running when he should to prove he is a passer. Blancing that during the season will just make him better.
Also reports of playing through rib injuries may have had something to do with that and for sure the ability to rest him the week before the WSF was huge. He looked rested refreshed and was able to carry the team with his legs past BC. From there it made the Offense hard to stop having to account for Durant running again.
Also Taman and Chamblain will be in year three next year in building a deep, young, talented, and cohesive Oline.

Haha, well played. But ask yourself question #2 - - Did he make the players around him better? Absolutely not. Defensive performance was down across the board with Ego Jones as the DC.

Argos won a championship in spite of him because they had a bunch of players that could overcome his shortcomings as a coach. Everyone saw what happened this year when Toronto didn't have veteran playmakers on defence to rely on.

Ego Jones is the Trent Dilfer of CFL coaches. As I said earlier, give him two or three years to self destruct in Edmonton and you'll understand what I'm talking about.

Are you trying to say that Milt won’t be a Hall of Famer? IMO, he is a shoo-in to be inducted, there are great players, elite players that have never won a championship. Marino comes to mind and Sanders… they were elite in their positions, no matter if they won a ring or not… I will say this though, if Durant can lead the Riders to another Cup win, he will be the only QB in Rider history to lead the team to 2 Cups… he will be in a category all by himself.

Legacies are defined by winning championships - - not by padding your numbers with meaningless stats in a regular season blow out.

The prime objective of any player is to win a championship. Nothing else really matters. Guys like Marino...Jim Kelly...Dan Fouts...Kevin Glenn - - good to great QBs, but not one of them was able to win a ring. They failed as players. And will all have a major void in their accomplishments because they couldn't deliver in the clutch.

That's the cold hard reality, my friend.

you are so wrong that I am thinking you must be from another planet. Its totally mindboggling

His entire premise is horrendously flawed. Football is a team sport. To use lack of championships as a reason for why a player (QB or not) isn't elite is completely asinine. Grade-schoolers are capable of more sophisticated reasoning. Seriously, don't even bother with him. Trolls should not be fed. :wink:

Dan Marino's legacy may be that of the greatest quarterback to not win a championship, but that doesn't mean the guy was not one of the best of all time, nor elite.

You might be able to make the argument in a sport like basktetball where one player can play damn near the entire game, but in football it's a very very poor argument.

I can't help but feel you're just playing the devils advocate in the discussion, there's no way you can be serious.