Is Creehan On Thin Ice ??

8) For what it's worth, I heard an interview on 590 the fan this afternoon, with Matthew Scianitti, who is the CFL reporter
  for the National Post.
 
   Regarding the TiCats game in Montreal Thursday night, Scianitti stated that Coach Cortez's explanation as to why he
    didn't throw the challenge flag, because his headset was on the defensive channel, and he didn't get any signal from
    his assistants on that play, was a very poor and inexcusable explanation, considering that the same thing has now 
     happened twice this season !!   That those assistants in the press box, don't even know by now how to send Cortez
     the signal to throw the challenge flag is completely inexcusable at this point in time !!

      Scianitti also said that he has heard rumours that Casey Creehan could be fired as early as this weekend, or the Cats
       will hold off until they see how the defence does against the Argos on Labour Day.

       If the defence shows no improvement in that game, then he said, expect to see Creehan fired then for sure at that
        point !!

        This might all be heresay, but don't kid yourself, all these CFL reporter have inside sources within each team.

         One thing is certain, something will happen for sure if we lose to the Argos !!

I'll see your Scianitti (who I think is an absolute tool) and raise you a George Cortez. From any interview posted on the main site (http://www.ticats.ca/video/index/id/77689) a reporter asks Cortez about making a coaching change (it starts at the 5:58 mark):

Reporter: Is there coaching changes being considered?
Cortez: Coaching changes? You gotta be... No.

I suspect Cortez was about to say, "You gotta be kidding me" but decided at the last second to just give a very short, "No." That was from yesterday, so I doubt that he'd say that on Friday and fire a guy two days later.

Sure, it's possible that Creehan could be fired, but hiring him was one of Cortez's first moves as head coach, so I can't see him ditching him this soon, win or lose to the Argos. Unless something goes horribly wrong, like the Argos score 60 on the Cats on Labour Day), Creehan will probably be here for the year.

If the Cats do get massacred against the Argos then hopefully Cortez swallows his pride and checks his ego. Otherwise he wouldn't be making a sound business decision. The labour day crowd needs to be at the very least entertained but if the Cats continue to slide then fairweather and casual fans will not bother with the second half of a dismal season. The defense MUST be corrected and the timing right now is crucial.

I agree that the defense needs to be fixed, but will firing the coordinator really have any impact this year? We've seen coaches fired mid-season before and it very rarely has a positive impact that season. Think of Chip Garber last year. The Argos fired him at mid-season and it did nothing to fix the issues on the defense. Or Doug Berry last year. The Riders fired him and the offense still stunk. I won't go into the head coaching changes that offer little-to-no return during the season (Greg Marshall, Rich Stubler, etc.), but I cannot think of one coaching change that had any sustain positive impact during the season when the new coach was brought in. If you fire a coach at mid-season, you pretty much tell everyone that you are playing for next year. Quick fixes simply don't happen in football. I think for better or worse Creehan will be the defensive coordinator the rest of the season barring, like a said, a complete pasting by the Argos on Labour Day.

Scianitti is not an insider. Cortez can't fire Creehan. He has nobody to do the job and there is no one out there who could step in and is unemployed or not under contract (Marshall,Berry,Bellefeuille,Maciocia).

I think if his defense does not improve. He will just be let go after the season.

Ok. But who takes over the job ? Cortez can't do it and he's got too much on his plate as it is.

there will likely be many changes made if the Cats lose on Labor Day, especially if it is a one-sided loss.

if such an event occurs, Creehan may be the first to go.
As well, a few players will likely be replaced.

The entire front four could easily be dismantled unless they commence playing like a Covington, Montford or Barrow all of a sudden which is highly unlikely.

Tisdale is suspect on the corner (is Loyce Means still available?)

More than skill, Williams and Thomas require positioning acumen which can be taught. (Zambiasi would be a fantastic mentor if available or willing)

The offense, if inconsistent again, could also begat changes. Guards are decent (yet seldom spread laneways), and Simmons and Dile seem to commit repeated miscues.
Cobourne and Walker are fine if the line provides an opportunity.... "IF"
and Jones is a pleasant surprise, while Giguere is not (yet) and Campeau is underutilized due to the talent we already possess on the wide side.

The Cats moved mountains to obtain Cortez, thus it is improbable he will be terminated during the season, as he is a novice HC and should ameliorate game strategy over time. (I hope)

I'm still laughing at this "explanation". "His headset was on the defensive channel"....why wouldn't it be? The defence was on the field. Clearly a faux pas from the spotter's in the booth who screwed up by not telling Cortez to throw the challenge flag.

Honestly though, what is Cortez going to say? Yeah, he's on thin ice and if we don't improve on Labour Day he's going to fire him? hahaha, that would never happen. A head coach publically always stands behind his hired hands.

You might not like the reporter but he has a piece of info from somewhere. Ethically and professionally, he can report on rumours as long as he has a source. He does not have to reveal his source but he's obviously heard it through some one. That person could be a ball boy to Obie himself.

If you follow hockey, the Puck Daddy and Hockey Buzz blogs have reports every day on the rumours that they hear.

How do you know that it has not been discussed? It probably has been brought up.

I personally feel that we need better players and not a different co-ordinator. The fundamentals of a d line getting pressure on the QB is absent. You can't teach speed, quickness and reflects. You can teach moves but do you really think a guy like Covington was taught how to get to the QB? He had the natural instincts to get by the guy infront of him to get to the QB.

As for another poster about getting Zambiasi in to coach, I think it's the same as McManus becoming the OC. Just because a guy was successful in football, it doesn't make him a great coach. If you go by that logic, Wayne Gretzky would have been the greatest coach ever. Why less than great players make good coaches is that they have always had to work hard to make teams. They put in the extra time and effort just to make a roster because they might not have that quickness or speed or natural ability to make plays.

Of course he is going to support him publicly, but did you watch the video? Did you hear the way he said what he said? That sure didn't sound like a guy who was ready to axe one of his coaches.

As far as Scianitti is concerned, he's not an insider with sources deep inside the Tiger-Cat locker room or front office. If Dave Naylor or Arash Madani or Drew Edwards came out and said this, I'd give it much more weight because those guys are in the know. Scianitti has been doing his job for less than a year (when he took over for the superior Mark Masters when he left to go to TSN) and has not had the time to cultivate the relationships to be able to say with any authority that this is going to happen (he said, according to Tipper's paraphrasing, that Creehan would "for sure" be fired after the LDC if the defense doesn't improve). Just because he might know some people who work for the team doesn't mean he's "in the know." I know people who work for the team, so I could just as easily say that I heard the team will not fire Creehan.

That's why this whole rumour mongering stuff is useless. Guys who say things like this never have to prove where it came from and never have to answer for it when they are wrong. It is no different than fortune tellers and cold readings. If you look at the way the Ti-Cats are playing, it is easy to think that the team may fire Creehan. The defense hasn't played well, so the obvious scapegoat for that is the man in charge of the defense. It takes no sources to come up with the idea that the Cats may fire Creehan. All you need is a pair of eyes.

Also, if you look at Scianitti's Twitter feed, you'll see he had this idea put out there well before he was told anything by any "sources." Take a look: https://twitter.com/mscianitti/status/2 ... 9296487424

That sure doesn't read like a guy that knows something. Unless @hammyahol is his source.

As for another poster about getting Zambiasi in to coach, I think it's the same as McManus becoming the OC. Just because a guy was successful in football, it doesn't make him a great coach. If you go by that logic, Wayne Gretzky would have been the greatest coach ever. Why less than great players make good coaches is that they have always had to work hard to make teams. They put in the extra time and effort just to make a roster because they might not have that quickness or speed or natural ability to make plays.
valid point Alan. However, the reason I referenced Zambiasi is that he has previous experience/success as a linebackers coach in the CIS system. The fact that Ben was an 8X all-star, a MODP, and 5X Grey Cup final participant doesn't hurt either. :thup:

Like he is going to say "yes, I will be firing Crehan's in the morning and introducing a new DC in the afternoon".

Have you watched the video? It's not what he said, but how he said it. If his response wasn't genuine, then hand Cortez an Oscar. I think people want Creehan fired so badly that they refuse to accept that it probably will not happen. It could happen because anything could happen, but I don't see it.

For starters, they don't have much experience on staff to replace him and they aren't going to bring in an outsider because they'd possibly be working with personnel that might not match their scheme. Also, they'd be starting for scratch, so it would be like training camp all over again for the guys on defense.

Secondly, if there was some saviour out there, why was Creehan hired in the first place? It's not like after he was hired there was some mass firing elsewhere that put some great coaches on the market. Creehan was chosen from the same pool that is available now. He hasn't produced immediate results, but anyone expecting him to do that as a first-time coordinator was being unreasonable. You don't expect a rookie player to come in and dominate, so why expect that out of a rookie coordinator?

Ti-Cat fans are a notoriously impatient bunch. Every year that people are asking for someone to be fired. They never let anyone try to work things out. Last year, it was Corey Chamblin and Khari Jones. Both guys were first-year coordinators and people we calling for their heads before the season was over. The only way young coaches are going to get better is by doing. Yet it seems like a lot of Tiger-Cat fans want the quick fix. They want immediate results. That's why we've gone through this perpetual cycle of change and mediocrity. Then finally when there is a bit of stability, and the most success this team has had in over a decade, we get more change and more mediocrity. When you bring in new people at key positions (QB, head coach, defensive coordinator), you have to expect some hiccups; if you don't, you're fooling yourself. But if you're not willing to deal with the short-term problems that come with change, then you really need to stop asking for it.

So let's say Creehan gets fired, then the next guy will come in and things won't immediately get better -- give me an example of a time when a coach brought in at mid-season had a sustained positive impact on a football team -- and by the end of the season people will be asking for him to be fired. Then in a year's time when another new DC is in place and he has the same issues as the last two guys, we'll have these same threads popping up asking who he can be replaced with. I'm not saying Creehan has done anything to warrant keeping his job, but I don't think eight games is enough time to decide if he should be let go.

Labour Day game is a must-win for several people in the organization (Creehan, DBs, D-Line especially)

3-6 will not be acceptable going into the last half of a season of high hopes. Winnipeg has already pulled the trigger on their HC, and he got them to the Grey Cup last year!

8) Example...1983, TiCats fire Head Coach Bud Riley, and promote Director of Player Personnel, Al Bruno to Head Coach.
   Bruno takes us to 4 Grey Cups during his tenure as TiCats Head Coach !!

    Bruno was also fired , but that is inevitable with every coach.  The day you are hired, is one day closer to being fired   <!-- s:wink: -->:wink:<!-- s:wink: -->

Here is what my crystal ball is saying:

  • Labour Day game is a blowout. Argos run the dickens through the Ticats defense, but the Cats come back to make it close.
  • However, as is so commonplace this year, it comes down to the last quarter, and the defense can't hold back the Argos
    drive. We lose by a FG, or TD.
  • then, we excuse ourselves, because we were very rusty, what with a 10-day layoff...
    .
    I'll be going to the Labour Day game, regardless, as I do every year.
    But I am not going in, with much expectations.
    .
    Then, if this happens, we will be 3-6, and not even close to being a .500 team again.
    1 step forwards; 2 steps back...
:cowboy: :cowboy:

Hamilton didn't get to the Grey Cup in 1983, though. They still finished 5-10-1 (though they got to the East Final, but look at the 1983 standings and you'll see why). It can pay dividends in the years after, but not that season. Bellefeuille was given the reins at mid-season and guided the team back to respectability starting in 2009, but he didn't do so well at the tail end of the 2008 season. In the season when the coaching change is made, a team usually doesn't improve all that much.

But regardless of how we feel, I think we can put this all to rest (http://scratchingpost.thespec.com/2012/ ... erloo.html):

I bolded the important part. Now can we stop speculating on whether Creehan will get fired?

Nope - I don't buy it. I've seen too many times, that statements like this could become the kiss of death.
Of course he is going to say this - what else is he supposed to say - " yeah, I'm seriously looking for alternative Coaching options" .
If I were the coach, I would mandate the following:

  1. "Casey - I want to see an improvement in points scored against. You need to be under 30 to give us a chance to win. That's all I have to say about this... "
  2. "Casey - if we are leading late in the 4rth, I expect you to hold the lead for us. We cannot lose games in the last minutes any more.... "
    .
    Then, leave the rest of the coaching to Casey.
    Cortez is not telling Casey HOW TO COACH. He is not saying - I want his guy, or I want this play, etc. Casey is big enough to handle on his own. But if Creehan can't improve on the above 2 points, then maybe he shouldn't be coaching, & you can be sure Cortez or OBie will be looking elsewhere... even if it is not for this year.
:rockin: :rockin: :rockin:

Who is going to say what? No one made a statement. Cortez didn't make that statement, Obie didn't make that statement, no one attached their name to any statement. Go back and read the quote again. It says that Drew talked to sources (clearly who were unnamed) and they said that Creehan's job wasn't in jeopardy. That's not the same as what you just wrote.

Yes - and who do you suppose those 'sources' are? You think there is somebody in the know, besides Cortez, or Obie?
The only other person I would guess, would be the Ticats Player Personnel guy. BTW - who is our Player Personnel guy?
Other than those 3, whoever is the 'source' - I wouldn't trust it anyways...
And if you are thinking that Bob Young knows - he wouldn't know either - that's what Coaches & GMs are for.
Bob just pays the bills....

:cowboy: :cowboy: :cowboy: