Incomplete pass?

lol. Jackson made a great underhanded backwards pass to the receiver two yards behind him didn't he?

Good thing it didn't matter at that point, but wow CFL refs! :lol:

They called it a sack, I believe. If not it would've been challenged and overturned had it meant anything.

Oh, I thought it was ruled an incomplete pass. Calling it a sack would at least make some sense as the official may have thought the ball came out after Jackson hit the ground.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they called it a sack. If they did call it incomplete though, yeah, that would've been pretty bad.. lol

Looking at the game tracker, it looks like it was called a sack.

pretty sure it was a loss of down cuz it was odell willis who got the "sack" was it not and he was held sackless tonight..

pretty sure it was just a turnover.. regardless tho it was a fumble and i think regardless of the score at that point.. because it was under 3 minutes, the booth should have reviewed it.. believe that rule was changed.. means a team can run it to the endzone after the whistle and it could be reviewed and counted as a td. thought i hear they changed that rule a bit. Ithink regardless tho it was a sack and forced fumble.. but pretty sure it counted as just a loss of downs as it was 3rd down..bombers got the ball where bc last scrimmaged. not where jarious lost the ball.

BOOTH needs to make sure its the right call regardless of score and time left in game. They needed to over rule the call on the field for the simple fact that it was indeed a fumble.

Yeah, decided game or not, it seems strange that the booth would just ignore an obviously wrong call in the last three minutes when it is their job to review just such plays.

They must have ruled Jackson was in the grasp before he fumbled. It doesn't really matter since we got the ball anyway on a turnover on downs.

What I HATE is when a QB is hit white in throwing motion, the ball goes BACKWARDS, it is ruled a fumble and then the offensive coach CHALLENGES the call because he wants an incomplete pass. Then we all have to sit around for 3 boring minutes while the league reviews it.

Note to frivilous challenging coaches, refs and the league command center. The rule book clearly states that a pass can only be ruled incomplete if it is forward. Throwing motion is irrelevant. This should not be challengeable.

I know this is only marginally related to the topic but it really bugs me when it happens, at least twice a year. Sooo stupid.

You need to re-read the rule. It's all about throwing motion, not about which way the ball goes. This is from the definition of an incomplete forward pass (Rule 6, Article 6):

d. when the passer has commenced [b]with a forward passing motion[/b] with the ball moving forward and, as a result of contact with an opponent, the ball leaves the passer's hand and strikes the ground,

Throwing motion is only relevant if the ball actually travels forward - hence a forward pass. Otherwise it's a lateral and if it hits the ground it's a fumble and still live. Sorry for the lack of clarity. I'll reword what I typed so quickly above.

Throwing motion is irrelevant ... if the ball goes backwards.

I've seen where a pass has landed 10 yards behind the QB ruled fumble only to be challenged to try to get an incomplete pass based on QBs throwing motion, I've seen this more than once - and it's a complete waste of time. And what's worse, MORE THAN ONCE Suitor has commented, "Well let's see if the ball comes out of his hand before the throwing motion, this could be ruled incomplete" meanwhile the ball lands 8 or 10 yards BEHIND the QB. Suitor doesn't even know the rule either.

You seem to be the one who is not understanding the rule. It says very clearly that if the QB has the ball in his hand and has started the forward throwing motion then it is an incomplete pass if the ball is knocked away and hits the turf because once the forward motion was started it means the ball was going forward too even if it was for just a fraction of a second. It doesn't matter if the ball is knocked sideways or backwards if the QB moved the ball forward in his throwing motion before it was knocked away.

Sorry but I am right. If the ball leaves the passer's hand and touches a player or the ground behind the QB it is a lateral/fumble regardless of ANY other factor. Throwing motion only becomes relevant if the ball touches a player or the ground forward of the QB.

But the only way the ball is going to leave the passer's hand and end up travelling backwards without hitting someone is if it was a backwards passing motion to begin with. You can't throw the ball forward and have it go backwards. If the ball comes out during a forward throwing motion and goes backwards, it was obviously out before the throwing motion (so it should be a fumble).

Which might be exactly what you're trying to say anyway, though.

If a QB throws a hitch to an RB that is lateral or behind, there is a clear and unimpeded throwing motion. If the pass one hops to the RB, it's a fumble regardless of the throwing motion because the ball went backwards. Now if the QB stands in the pocket and looks downfield and gets hit while he was throwing, it doesn't change. If the ball leaves the QBs hand in any way and goes backwards it CAN NOT and WILL NOT EVER be a forward/incomplete pass, always fumble.

Yes, but if the RB is behind him and he’s throwing the ball to him, the throwing motion is still backwards relative to the line of scrimmage.

Actually, that's not quite true. All that is required for it to be considered a passing motion for the purposes of an Incomplete Pass ruling is that the qb's arm has just started forward motion. If the qb's arm has just started forward motion, then the hand and forearm are still behind his head, and as the motion starts, the ball moves upward and then forward in an arc.

If contact is made with the arm (or ball), then the ball can actually come out of the hand at an angle as high as 90 degrees to the circumference of the arc. (Its called Centriptial Force.) If the contact is early enough that the ball is still in its upward motion, then it is possible that the ball can come out "backwards" even though the arm is in a forward passing motion. This also can occur if the ball just slips out of the qb's hand, even without contact.

The way the rule is written, it is the motion of the arm, not the ball, that matters. Yes, the intuitive reaction is "how can the ball go backwards if the arm is moving forwards", and that would apply if the arm motion was strictly horizontal. But, because there is also a vertical component, and an arc shape, involved, it is actually physically possible.

From the replay I saw, it looked to me like this is what happened in this case, and that the correct call would have been "incomplete pass, and turn over on downs", which is, I think, what was actually called.

Rule 6 - A legal forward pass is thrown by any Team A player from a point behind the scrimmage line, towards the opponent's Dead Line, to any eligible receiver or receivers. The passing motion begins when the passer's hand, with the ball in possession, begins moving forward.

A screen pass is a forward pass thrown to a receiver at a point behind the line of scrimmage. ...


A lateral pass is NOT thrown towards the opponent's Dead Line which is why it is a fumble if the receiver doesn't catch the ball. If the QB is throwing a pass to a receiver who is in front of him (whether that receiver is over the LOS or not) it is a forward pass. If the QB has the ball in his hand when his arm starts moving forward and the ball is then knocked away it is an incomplete pass. If his arm has not started the forward motion then it is a fumble.

Are you trying to tell me that a lateral pass can possibly be ruled incomplete?

No.

A lateral pass is intended to move away from the line of scrimage. The arm-motion rule applies in the case of an attempted forward pass. It would be a judgement call for the officials as to whether a quarterback was attempting a forward pass or a lateral pass.