Fenderguy
Your interpreting those labor laws the wrong way. There are also other laws that pertain to sports and entertainment
Also the NHL is full of non-americans and no one down here is complaining
Okay. How am I interpreting those labour laws incorrectly? Just asking because I am honestly interested and if I’m wrong I’d like to know so that I understand it correctly.
I think that statement unto itself actually supports the ratio & the CFL etc.
You’re right, the NHL is full of non-Americans and no one is complaining. But it’s also quite clear that no one is really watching either! Outside of traditional NorthEastern & border state hockey markets, the NHL suffers greatly in making any inroads against the other major sports. Overall, the NHL is 4th compared to the NFL, NBA, & MLB. In much of the US, the NHL is behind NCAA sports of football & basketball and others.
My suspicion as far as why the NHL doesn’t garner any significant support south of the Mason-Dixon Line is because its a foriegn sport played by a bunch of foriegners! Which is exactly what I think people are saying here would happen when it comes to removing the ratio in the CFL.
A this time there is no significant threat to American jobs in the 3 major American sports.
MLB = 27% Foreign Born
NBA = 20% Foreign Born
I still contend that if any of these leagues/associations saw the % of foriegn born players increase to or even approach 50%, you’d see a major referendum on the matter.
In fact, the decline of African-American baseball players in the MLB has caused such concern politically and programmes have been enacted in order to reverse recent trends.
I agree completely with the Caretaker.
There was a previous thread on this subject that ran to many pages in length.
[url=http://forums.ticats.ca/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=72243]viewtopic.php?f=5&t=72243[/url]All the arguments and others are probably to be found there. I won't go into them all in great detail again now, though I appreciate Bob's invitation to do so. Suffice it to say that to me, having the ratio and ensuring we have Canadians on CFL teams in large numbers is a major positive feature of the league for a number of key reasons:
It makes the game more interesting and exciting, not less so.
It is in keeping with the traditions and history of the game, and preserves and continues them for the future.
It is part of the package of unique attributes, along with the rules and the field, that make CFL football interesting
It helps fans relate to players who grew up with Canadian football, played it as kids in school and dream of playing it professionally and winning a Grey Cup.
It ensures fans can cheer for players who grew up, lived and played locally.
It makes the league less of a development league for the NFL and American football, not more so.
It gives Canadian kids and players from Canadian universities a realistic opportunity to realize their goal to play professional football.
It enhances fan association with players year-round and greater community involvement, because more Canadian players live here in the off-season than American players do.
It helps maintain and enhance a feeling of pride in Canadian heritage.
I know some disagree with these perspectives, and many others feel similarly. Thanks Bob, for giving us all the opportunity to express our views on this important matter.
That would really bring the league down, there is just not enough QBs with ability in Canada. Every few years there may be a decent Canadian QB but it’s rare. If a Canadian high school player shows outstanding ability he is recruited and given a scholarship at the NCAA level. I have to give Sinopoli credit, here is a Canadian QB who actually went out and proved that he can be as good as any NCAA backup.
He wasn’t given that job because he was a Canadian, he won the job fair and square because of his talent and ability and if you want to be proud of someone there is a good example.
I would like to see more Canadians get the incentive to play in the CFL give them the opportunity to compete one on one for any positon. I think reducing the NI rule would give Canadians incentive and go along way in encouraging them to try harder.
Let’s face it, if you are 300 pounds and a Canadian playing at the CIS level you are almost guaranteed to be a starter in the CFL, and that’s not right.
They can reduce the number of NI’s in 2014 by two and still maintain the same number of Canadians as the do now.
So because of tenure and residence, most of the leaders are Canadians.
Exactly Hf, that's one of the main reasons I like my Ticats seasons tickets, I'm paying the salaries of guy actually living here by and large and being Canadian, paying taxes, sending their kids to Canadian schools etc. They are part of the community 24/7 365 days of the year.
If I want to see the "best" football players in the "best" league, once in a while I go for a quick less than an hour drive to Buffalo to see the NFL, with inferior rules, but still what is generally regarded by "joe blow fan" as the best. I'm still a Vikings fan of that sort of fan.
A pretty good article from Jim Mullin on the issue.
[url=http://cfl.ca/article/mullin-changing-the-game-the-ratio]http://cfl.ca/article/mullin-changing-t ... -the-ratio[/url]Thanks Fender for that article. I read it at a cursory glance and right now, after a few drinks, it's a bit too much information overload if you will. But I did read it and will read it again and think.
seymour, on the other hand, will most likey dismiss it from the get go because it simply doesn't say completely scrap the import rule. I guess that's where the dividing line might fall between thinking from reading and simply believing from a belief set of values. While seymour might applaud Caretaker for starting this thread, seymour himself has no intention of thinking through any arguments which alter his very basic, and simple premise - scrap the import rule, no need to think at all. Sort of reminds me of growing up in a strict Catholic family, don't think, just believe.
Including the first and second string QBs in the count wouldn’t guarantee that any teams would end up signing non-import (i.e. Canadian) QBs, any more than it guarantees teams use non-imports at any other position. (Including the third string QB probably would, but he’d probably never see the field, which is why I would not include that position in the count.) But including them in the count might encourage one or two teams to develop a Canadian QB in the hope that he would become good enough to move up to the number two spot, and maybe the top spot.
I wouldn't mandate having a Canadian QB. I'd rather just eliminate the special QB category where the ratio does not apply. Right now we have three categories--Imports, Non-imports and QBs. Instead, I'd have two categories-- Imports and Non-imports. The coaches can figure out which positions should be filled with which category.
I would not reduce the number of NI's per team. I'd increase it, or better yet, reduce the roster size to 40, and stay with 20 NI's per team as at present.
The only thing wrong with the ratio is as said above:
"Is that QB's are not part of it."
Including QB's as part of the ratio equation would have ZERO effect on the ratio, providing(again as suggested earlier) the starting QB does not count as a starter, but as a DI.
Right now the roster break down is: 19 Imports + 20 NI's + 3 QB's
Make it a simple change in 2014(new CBA) to: 22 imports + 22 NI's(expand the roster to 44 + 4 reserve)
All teams will have 6 DI's WITH the provision that all import QB's count as Designated Imports meaning there is no benefit/penalty to having a NI starting QB or backup towards the # of starting NI's.
Yes a team like the Stamps(Sinopoli) or Als(Quinlan) might sign a NI QB and keep him there longer because they gain an extra DI spot to back-up at another import spot(like LB or DB) but that's not really a big deal.
Keep a rule that a team must have a minimum 3 QB's on the active roster.
I'd also like to see, the practice roster expanded to at least 10, with half those spots reserved for NI's, one of those NI spots like now for a current draft year guy and another for a NI QB. Since it's the practice roster use of those designated spots is completely optional to the team, so there is no need for a debate about "there isn't 8 Canadian QB's" blah blah because there is ZERO mandate that teams must have a NI QB, simply giving them the ability to carry one.
I'm on the fence with this one. It's nice cheering for a Canucklehead but if that good ol Canucklehead wasn't the best player?
I wonder how the rest of the league views this.. Is southern Ontario to Americanized that it can't be happy cheering for anything other than the best.
I think that’s a really good point. I can see from other team blogs and forums and media that the ratio and the local flavour issue is of much more importance in areas like Saskatchewan, Edmonton, Winnipeg and to lesser degrees in Calgary & BC but still important. Montreal is interesting as well. They’ve made no bones about drafting French Canadian players in order to appeal to their fan base. It’s a priority in Saskatchewan to draft/acquire good old prairie boys. Same in Winnipeg. Wally Buono in BC has also made a point of going after local kids.
And maybe that also relates to s Ontario not really having a sense of community or sense of self compared with other areas of Canada perhaps partially due to the proximity to the US, not sure. Toronto also has a huge gravitional pull on many cities near it that either aspire to be like Toronto or want to be associated with Toronto, as well of course Toronto does have more in terms of shopping, entertainment options etc. that draws many people for day and overnight trips. I used to live in Windsor and the people there identify with Detroit across the river to a large extent, understandably so.
Too late to edit. Was reading this about RBC. Of course RBC isn't in the "entertainment business" as some would suggest therefore no parallels at all. :?
RBC scrambles to explain hiring practices to Canadians after CBC report
The Royal Bank of Canada was scrambling to explain its hiring practices to customers Sunday after a CBC report claiming the bank was employing foreign workers to replace Canadian staff prompted a flood of outrage...
[url=http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/story/2013/04/08/hamilton-rbc-facebook.html]http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/story/2 ... ebook.html[/url]The CFL's allowance to have teams be able to hire any Americans in the first place over Canadians could be viewed as "operational effectiveness", to use the term in this article. 
The laws you put a link to do not pertain to foreign athletes on the whole because the pro athletes fall into a different category … the link you provided is mostly about companies sponsoring foreign workers to get their work visa.
It’s there to protect the local population against a company from doing things like obtaining visa’s for workers from one country and not hiring any locals and there is a whole list of things in there that i could go on and on about. But its mostly visa control they only allow so many per year
Pro athletes and Entertainers fall into another category mostly because they are a small percentage of the population that they won’t really be taking away work opportunities or drive down work conditions or things of that nature
There are also E.O.E. laws here Equal Opportunity Employer laws that state that Employers cannot discriminate who they hire … so if ANYONE has work authorization here in the USA then it cannot be used against them that they are a foreign worker …for example I am a Canadian I live in the USA i have work authorization and if i go to try and get hired no company can say sorry we have to many foreign workers here we cannot hire you
It also goes against your limits against film crews … the only way i can see that happening is if a canadian company comes south and works with an american company then the unions may state that but if everyone has the work visa then no gov. law can state that
Thanks. I know that foreign athletes fall into a different category.
In my original post that included the link I was referring to countries’ labour laws in general … Not specific to sports. My post had to do with the fact that every country employs some sort of protectionism when it comes to certain industries and employee groups.
The CFL is not unique in restricting the number of foreign players in it's league:
Canadian Hockey League (CHL) teams are currently permitted 2 "imports" (players from outside Canada or the US) each, though this cap is expected to be reduced to one within a couple of seasons.
In the U.S.-based Major League Soccer (MLS), a total of 152 international slots are divided among the 19 clubs. The remaining roster slots must belong to domestic players. The three Canadian MLS clubs each have 8 international slots, but their domestic slots may be filled with either Canadian or U.S. domestic players. They must have a minimum of 3 Canadian domestic players on their rosters.
In Rugby, each English Super League team is allowed to have 3 foreign players, while Championship League teams are only allowed 1 foreign player. One exception is when a player has played for a rugby team for six years, he is eligible to gain British citizenship and does not count under the quota.
English League football took a major step in the restriction of foreign players with its “3+2 Rule?, which limited each squad to a maximum of 3 non-indigenous players, with up to two more assimilated players. Other European powerhouses have instituted similar policies.
FIFA, World soccer's governing body has proposed the “6+5 Rule?. The rule, in its current form, would force clubs to start 6 players who are eligible for the national team of the nation where the club is located, capping the number of foreigners to 5.
The CFL allowing foreign players in 17 of the 24 starting positions seems rather generous in comparison.
Thanks for posting that. It’s very interesting information.
Yes, excellent comparative figures steve. :thup: