If I'm The CFL, This Deal Worries Me

CFL Talk
21

On the other hand this could be good for the CFL? Perhaps with Rogers and Bell (i.e. CTV/TSN) now partnering on a big sports property will foster better cooperation with Rogers Centre, the Argos and CFL. Maybe Rogers will be less inclined to completely ignore the CFL on TV. Maybe Rogers will allow the Argos to adorn the exterior of the stadium with double blue and CFL banners on game-days instead of the usual Bills/Jays stuff.

It could also be the complete opposite and ultimately terrible for the CFL who knows?

22

larry tannenbaum was just naming off the championships they will be going after:
"stanley cup, nba championship, and...and...and....help me here....MLS cup"

shows what they think of MLS over at MLSE.
they don't even know what they are competing for. its all about money, not championships.
haha

23

Somehow I doubt Larry is a real soccer nut. But smart enough to know how to make money on a MLS team, what they bought the team for $10 mill and franchises are going for around $40 mill now. I didn't realize either the MLS had a cup, well, I like the word cup better than championship I will say. :wink:

24

I don’t think TFC is going anywhere. However I do see TFC being sold from BCE/Rogers. They are stuggling selling season tickets for next season from what I’ve heard.

That’s only because this deal is strickly about TV and the Leafs, and Air Canada Centre.

25

You and your positive thinking are not welcome here. Don’t you know that you’re supposed to look at the available information and figure out the worst possible interpretation? (just kidding, of course).

26

how can you say TFC isn't going anywhere?

they are struggling to sell tickets and they don't draw flies on TV ( cbc is dropping them ) . these are two of the most important aspects of running a sports franchise.
they are a part of a league in trouble/denial and are owned by a company who thinks of them as an afterthought.
if MLS goes under, which is a possiblity ( again, they won't publicly admit the troubles of the league , but a large majority of teams lose money ), TFC is without a league to play in.

27

This is my line of thinking as well. There is no conspiracy to “shut out” the CFL in this deal. All year long, we keep clamoring about how great the CFL ratings are. It seems counter-intuitive to suggest that because BELL (TSN) is buying MLSE that this will hurt the CFL. As I mentioned in my previous post, this will likely be a good thing for the Toronto Argonauts. MLSE might very well be the next owner of that franchise…

Also, I would really not be surprised if either the soccer team or the basketball team were sold. Neither property is worth much alone. But aslong as they can find suckers to buy those tickets in packages with leaf tickets, they’re sitting on a gold mine.

28

Agree geroy. The Leafs hold for all intents and purposes the key to sports in Toronto. They have allowed MLSE to purchase the Raptors and TFC and make them successful on the coattails of the Leafs. Now the Jays will cottail on the Leafs as well.

The Leafs are a product which people want and being worth the most money of any team in the NHL, well, that speaks for itself.

I would even have to turn from a Habs fan to a Leafs fan if this deal brought about a new stadium for the Argos or at least the ability to radically transform BMO into a CFL stadium. :o

29

MLSE has an under utilized asset in BMO field. it would make sense to buy the argos, move them to BMO and thus maximizing dates of use of BMO. more money in parking an concessions.

and while i say it would make sense, that doesn't mean MLSE will share that opinion.

30

They are just starting to struggle to sell tickets, after 5 seasons of not very good results on the field.

TFC by themselves won’t go anywhere as long as the MLS sticks around.

31

If TFC starts winning and making the playoffs that will be great for them. Now with Montreal in the MLS making Canada's top 3 cities with teams, TFC isn't going anywhere for sure. I'm sure ratings for MLS will start to rise in Canada.

32

Especially considering that MLSE has in the past considered buying the Argonauts and there has been multiple rumour suggesting TSN would look to re-acquire the argos, I think you could be on to something.

You can’t deny that the CFL provides great content, so I expect MLSE (specifically Bell through TSN) would be inclined to look at the argos.

33

MLS needs TV ratings to boost in the US.
three successful teams in canada does not save the league. especially since the tv rights in canada don’t bring alot of cash for the league. CBC dropping TFC doesnt help with that, either.
in 2008, only THREE MLS clubs made money; TFC, FC Dallas and the LA galaxy
in 2009, only TWO: TFC and Seattle Sounders FC.

when only 2 clubs in an entire league of 19 are profitable, the league is in trouble

34

That's a great point dg. Surely if, and I don't think that's the case but if the MLS needs 3 teams in Canada to make the league look successful, the league is in big trouble. They do need the ratings in the US to rise substantially if they want the long term success they are looking for. But they have some big investors in teams in the US so I don't think the league is in trouble in the US at all IMHO, at least for now as people are still willing to shell out $40 mill for a team.

35

Another option is for the CFL to buy the Score network, which is for sale, and make it the official CFL network. Score is included free in most basic cable packages (with perhaps more subscribers than TSN) and is allowed to show live programming if they choose.

The CFL network could show all CFL games, all CIS football games, plus televise Rugby Canada, international Rugby, Aussie Football, Field Lacrosse, Field Hockey, Irish Hurling, etc, (to add content). Perhaps the league could buy the 50 years of CFL games the CBC has in their vault (and hopefully are preserving)?

I don't necessarily see the Bell merger/purchase as being bad for the Argos as there is already much cross ownership between MLSE, Rogers and Bell. But these people are backing the NFL big-time. They obviously see the growth potential of the NFL while the CFL is perceived as stagnating. Bell/CTV/TSN have largely used CFL broadcasts to promote their NFL games (but with very little reverse promotion). The NFL seems to be growing year by year in Canada with the Super Bowl now surpassing the Grey Cup in ratings.

I believe these billionaire NFL-lovers do see the Argos as an impediment to getting a NFL team in Toronto. Most recent surveys show that over 50% of football fans in southern Ontario prefer Canadian football. It would be very hard to run a successful NFL franchise in a market where half the fans prefer another professional football league. In a U.S. city, the NFL can be assured that 99% of the pro football fans prefer the NFL and the community will be fully behind them. Not so in Toronto.

By benign neglect, these media and corporate barons have been hoping to squeeze out the Argos and let them wither on the vine. It's no coincidence the CFL/Argos get such scant coverage in much of the "national" media, despite the league drawing huge TV ratings. But the CFL is feisty and popular and teams can run on a shoestring budget.

Each year, the Blue Jays lose at least 15 times more money than the Argos, but we rarely hear about the BJ's red ink, while the Argos attendance woes are front page material (despite the Argos averaging more fans this year than the miracle Alouettes did for previous 10 seasons at Molson stadium.)

The popularity of the Grey Cup is the CFL's saving grace. It was reported that the B.C. Lions made $10 million on ticket sales alone for the 99th Grey Cup. This was almost pure profit as the B.C. Place rental was free (in trade for 100% of the concession revenue) and the rights to GC game were free (with the CFL keeping 100% of the sponsorship revenues). On top of the ticket revenue, I'll bet there were many other revenue streams for the Lions. I'm sure Senator Braley will have a similar arrangement for the 100th GC in Toronto...which must really irk the NFL-lovers. :thup:

36

Doesn't irk me and I'm an NFL lover. At any rate when you say:

The NFL seems to be growing year by year in Canada with the Super Bowl now surpassing the Grey Cup in ratings.

This isn't the issue really. The issue is can Toronto obtain an NFL franchise? And the CFL isn't the issue here, if it was I don't believe the BIT series would have happened. The issue is Buffalo and if they do the $100 mill plus reno on the Ralph, no team in Toronto, Toronto is in Buffalo's territory and the NFL will do everything they can to keep the Bills successful. If I was Rogers/BCE with BCE owning TSN in part and showing CFL games, I'd be doing things to enhance the CFL in all of Canada and especially Toronto and especially since the NFL is not going to have a team in Toronto as it seems. Of course they will continue to advertise NFL games on Sportsnet and TSN and CTV, they want viewers because they show these games and are paying big money for it but I don't believe that means it has anything to do with having to have a team, an NFL team or no team and they still want to show the NFL because people watch.

What could hurt the Bills is if this new consortium builds a new CFL stadium or enhances BMO and the Argos become a place to have fun at (hard to do at the cavernous RC) and this could happen since Buffalo is shutting out the NFL in Toronto so it seems. And if I'm Rogers, I'm pissed if the new reno goes ahead in Buffalo, I'd want some revenge. :wink:

I see some growth potential for the CFL and Argos in Toronto especially with Hamilton's new stadium and coming off the 100th Grey Cup celebration in Toronto. It's not a lot of money for this new consortium to buy the Argos and have a new stadium or enhanced BMO which is more likely I think. I might even become a TFC fan. :o

The more I think about it, the more I like this new consortium if you're a fan of the CFL. Maybe I'm too optimistic, who knows. :?

37

One thing I forgot to say. Before it was a case of Rogers forcing and not wanting to lose the Argos because it does provide them with more dates for their stadium. Now everything has changed, it shouldn't matter as much if the Argos play at the RC or BMO or any stadium the new consortium operates, it's more or less the same pot. That's the potential beauty of this deal, Rogers doesn't have to look at MLSE as competitors any longer.

38

an NFL team must be owned by an individual or group of individuals - not a corporation.
and with a price tag of $1 billion, as we've just seen with MLSE, only corporations are capable of such a price - and partnering corperations at that.

and if, some individual or group of individuals had the $1 billion to purchase an NFL franchise for Toronto, they would still need money to build an NFL-calibre stadium.

an NFL franchise will Never make a permanent home in Toronto.

i'm less concerned with the idea of a toronto-based NFL team killing the argos/cfl as i am with the toronto media ignoring/bashing the CFL in favor NFL product that is not our own.

39

i'm less concerned with the idea of a toronto-based NFL team killing the argos/cfl as i am with the toronto media ignoring/bashing the CFL in favor NFL product that is not our own.

dg, don't be too concerned about that, IMHO it's actually good for business, get's people reading CFL stuff that might not otherwise. It's all good, sports writers using the CFL to get people to read the CFL is all good even if it's bashing. Look at hockey, I read stuff about concussions and should fighting go out of hockey as it makes the league look bushy even though I'm not a huge, huge hockey fan. I really don't care much about reading about whether this team or that team acquired a player and who got drafted etc., I'm not that big of a hockey fan but I do like the other kinda stuff about hockey as I say, and if it works in US markets, Bettman as a jerk etc.. I like reading that stuff.

The more comparisons, if you will, that any writer talks about in Canada of the CFL-NFL or Grey Cup-Super Bowl regardless of slant, is good for business. They are talking football and talking CFL football! That is good!

40

The thought just crossed my mind… that would probably be the best thing for the CFL. If Bell/Rogers brought the Argos under the scope of MLSE, the Argos would in turn have the marketing resources of MLSE/Rogers in addition to what they already have in TSN… The Argos could in said arrangement potentially have access now to BMO Field.

Rogers and MLSE have thus far seemed content to lose millions upon millions on the Jays and Raptors… why not a few million on the Argos to grow Canada’s national football tradition?

I mean a lot of IFs there and there’s no denying MLSE/Rogers interest in the NFL. I wonder what approach they will take going from here as it pertains to the CFL.